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The Never Married, a New Normal

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#241

Post by kitsunesoba »

Obscurity4340 wrote: post #178
kitsunesoba wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think there’s a lot of societal pressure to both get married and to have children, especially in the south, where I’m from. I don't know where things stand now, but there was a similar pressure in Appalachia ~15 years ago. If you'd been out of high school more than a couple of years and hadn't gotten married or at minimum found someone you'd intended to marry, people would start asking if you were closeted or som…

Makes me wonder if so much of the domestic craziness is rooted in people who fundamentally are only together to allay peer pressure and questioning of their sexuality. What a recipe for disaster all around.

I've wondered the same thing. There's no doubt a lot of people who aren't a good fit for each other or hadn't yet attained the requisite level of maturity, resources, etc to make things work who felt forced to marry in some capacity, and the fuses of individuals in such relationships will almost certainly be short. It's a setup for failure.

I believe it's particularly bad for couples who got married under 26 or so, because due to the brain finishing up development and accumulating some real world experience, people tend to settle into who they'll be for the rest of their life at around that age and the change can be stark. It's not hard to imagine a couple who were wed at 20 and very much into each other drifting apart in their late 20s after that shift takes place.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#243

Post by emodendroket »

ameminator wrote: post #229
emodendroket wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you say and yet not having children or doing it later is correlated with more income and wealth rather than less. E: Consider https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/01/15/for-most-...

Be careful not to fall into the correlation=causation trap. It's entirely possible that only the wealthy are able to get married and stay married.

That's possible but I don't see what it has to do with wealthier people having children later in life.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#244

Post by rgbgraph »

stickfigure wrote: post #188
adam_arthur wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why commingle finances at all? A large percentage of divorces are due to financial disagreements... joint accounts have proven to be a failed model at scale. If you want to share money, have separate accounts and transfer money between them as needed/on a schedule. No room for impropriety/mistrust. Everybody has autonomy. If we choose to be realistic, rather than idealistic, we would recognize that a large percentage…

> Why commingle finances at all? Because it's simple and easy? I trust my partner; she trusts me; we discuss expenses beyond some fuzzy threshold that we both seem to understand intuitively. The alternative seems to require spreadsheets. Who pays for the kid's daycare? Who pays what percentage of the mortgage, and what ownership stake does that represent? What if someone's income goes dramatically up, or dramatically…

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#245

Post by JenrHywy »

shadowgovt wrote: post #200
nine_k wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Children, in your one and only life which is going to end soon enough. Economy will never be perfect.

My parents' generation could raise two kids on one full time job. No way I'd try raising even one on a single income any more. So my wife and I can have a much nicer quality of life with zero kids.

I've been thinking about this some more. Decision-making around parenting is extremely bizarre.

Parenting seems like an example of L.A. Paul's "vampire problem" - where you're such a different person after an event that it's not possible to evaluate it as the person you are before the event. But it's actually more complicated than that.

If I had to choose between being completely destitute and one of my kids' lives, it's not even a decision. But when considering if to have another child, comfort and affordability have a huge influence - even though, as a parent I already know that the moment the child is born, they would become incomprehensibly precious to me.

So I have the ability to bring into existence something would for certain massively increase the joy and purpose in my life, and yet I don't... for the same reasons that I criticized you for in a sibling comment.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#246

Post by j7ake »

Today, it is now possible to live entirely independently, with little reliance on a large family. Government and society provides (at a price) many things that used to be provided by extended family : eg child care, unemployment benefits, food, social activity, clothing, housing.

This new “society provides most services” favours being single with one other person (and maybe one child).

Being married and having children is more suited for older days when society provided almost no security and protection from economic and natural realities.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#247

Post by fogzen »

JenrHywy wrote: post #225
fogzen wrote: post #97

This is deeply connected to the drop in childbirth. Yeah, if you don’t want children and you just have a friend you have sex with, why get married?

Maybe, just maybe, there's more to marriage than having a friend you have sex with?

Marriage is a commitment to stay together for life. Family is the most compelling reason to make such a commitment, as children are naturally a lifelong relationship and long-term shared responsibility. Caring for the spouse is an extension of caring for the child.

Sure, people can get married without choosing to have children. There's just way less on the line. Divorce is much easier. Just split the assets and move on. No need to worry about custody issues, where the child will live, all the relatives that have a relationship with the child, etc.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#248

Post by nolroz »

rgbgraph wrote: post #244
stickfigure wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why commingle finances at all? Because it's simple and easy? I trust my partner; she trusts me; we discuss expenses beyond some fuzzy threshold that we both seem to understand intuitively. The alternative seems to require spreadsheets. Who pays for the kid's daycare? Who pays what percentage of the mortgage, and what ownership stake does that represent? What if someone's income goes dramatically up, or dramatically…

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Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#249

Post by AussieWog93 »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #184
cultofmetatron wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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“Responsibilities as a wife”—sorry, what are these supposed to be? Pretty sure there’s such a thing as “responsibilities as parents” and that one is ungendered and that’s why they are enshrined in laws, but what are “responsibilities as a wife”? Though, of course, if you’re still thinking about gender norms, then either find someone who agrees with your expectations, or don’t be in a relationship at all because gende…

>“Responsibilities as a wife”—sorry, what are these supposed to be?

Figure that out and you'll get a committed partner for life. ;)

But to start, a wife is often the sole emotional support network that a man has, and in a healthy relationship his sole source of sex.

Re: The Never Married, a New Normal

#250

Post by ameminator »

lapcat wrote: post #194
ameminator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can sacrifice my ego through meditation and acts of charity/volunteer work. No need to risk half of my current assets and future income on the whims of some potentially capricious other person, who probably doesn't like me very much anyways. Good luck to you, however.

> who probably doesn't like me very much anyways This feels like a straw man, or straw woman, as the case may be. Why would you even consider marrying someone who probably doesn't like you very much? And why would they consider marrying you? (He says, fresh off watching the finale of Succession.)

It's a personal judgement based on personal experience. I asked those same questions before deciding that maybe dating or marriage was not for me. However, you should make your own judgement call based off of your own experiences. Just be aware that something between 40 and 45% of first time marriages fail in North America (depending on the study).
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