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Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

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Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#241

Post by dahwolf »

comprev wrote: post #33
segasaturn wrote: post #21

While I agree that CEOs are overpayed, I think the same applies to software engineers. Software Engineering has been a pay/perk bubble for years that was due for a correction, and like when Elon cut the free gourmet lunches and coffees for Twitter staff, I'm sure the Google engineers will survive. Meanwhile Google's "raters", the army of workers who do the hard work of moderating and testing Google's platforms are ge…

I disagree about being overpaid. Similar to other professions - engineering and medicine for example - we have a career which requires a dedication to constant learning. We build systems which allow companies to generate billions in revenue and deserve a slice of the pie.

The thing Googlers conveniently leave out is that this multiplier effect that is seen almost nowhere else is not due to super human brilliance, it's build on the backs on all the rest of us. Our information. Our content. Typically provided for free or forcefully soaked up by surveillance tactics.

You're the operator of a machine that exploits on a planetary scale. You might be awesome at operating this machine, but you don't supply the actual value that leads to those billions.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#242

Post by kevviiinn »

woooooo wrote: post #239
kevviiinn wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can definitely survive for a few years without salary too. 200M is be enough to last most people decades and more yet they get that much every year

200M is enough to last any person intergenerationally along with their children and grandchildren. Not disagreeing with you, just a point of emphasis.

You're 100% correct, honestly I was just trying not to come off as being too hyperbolic

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#243

Post by decafninja »

chronic94939 wrote: post #203
pdntspa wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me another profession that can have such a dramatic impact on the bottom line where your work makes the company 100x-1000x your salary. If anything SWE are underpaid, we should be getting a slice of total business unit revenue. With my last job doing SWE for a bank, I know for a fact that my code saved the company hundreds of thousands dollars just from one project, and I know for a fact that some of my other co…

> Show me another profession that can have such a dramatic impact on the bottom line where your work makes the company 100x-1000x your salary. High frequency trading / propriety trading firms (buy-side) make FANG TC look like public teacher TC. 400-600K USD for 22-year old new grads. With 5 YOE, TC of $1M+ is not uncommon . If you do really well, $10M+ annual TC is possible with 5-10 YOE. Even mid-career employees ge…

The total number of roles in HFT firms and other top finance companies that pay tech employees that well are tiny compared to the number of roles in FAANG.

Along those lines, the number of SWEs in FAANG are tiny compared to the legions upon legions of SWEs working at nontech companies where a 60yo staff engineer retires with compensation similar to a FAANG 25yo junior engineer.

The comparison is even more dire if you bring non-US jobs into play. I’ve heard a typical Venetian gondolier is paid more than an Italian SWE.

So I disagree a FAANG engineer is underpaid compared to the vast majority of their peers at other companies.

FAANG is an anthill, and HFT firms are a wart on an ant’s thorax compared to the Mt. Everest that comprises the legions of companies that pay far, far less.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#244

Post by cogitoergofutuo »

endisneigh wrote: post #194
cogitoergofutuo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such hyperbole. Saudi Aramco is superior in every financial metric. I don’t know anyone can say this with a straight face while Aramco exists. (Since we’re bringing up companies nobody else mentioned)

Yes, Aramco is a competitor to apple.

If you think about it, every company is a competitor because they’re all competing for money

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#245

Post by moralestapia »

lvl102 wrote: post #130
endisneigh wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such hyperbole. Apple is superior in every financial metric. I don’t know how anyone can say this with a straight face while apple exists.

What did Tim actually accomplish though? He’s there to essentially “keep” what Apple already established under Steve Jobs. Nadella made some big decisions to completely remake Microsoft. By the way, return (not including dividends) is about the same between AAPL and MSFT since Nadella took over on February 2014 which is simply amazing if you think about the differences between the two companies.

Cook was fundamental for Apple in becoming the company it is today. The stuff he has done in there, regarding logistics and operations, its real innovation on its own.

I sympathize more w/ Nadella, but I would think that Cook is an even greater CEO than him.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#246

Post by atleastoptimal »

zpthree wrote: post #119
atleastoptimal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the most consequential because of him. It was at that level when he got the job. Should the comp, in terms of who deserves the most money, go to the guy on top, or to the employees in proportion to their contribution? CEO pay ratio is fucked in the US in any realm. It's just because those at the top have more leverage, they don't necessarily have more value.

start a company and pay your CEO less if you want. Sergey and Larry believe he should get 226M, are you saying they are misjudging the situation?

Typical libertarian viewpoint. By that logic everything a company does, every price and all current things going on in the job market are ok and what the invisible hand deems right and fair.

It's not about whether it makes sense to pay a CEO a lot, it's more about the disproportionate allocation of capital, and how it allows enough room for error that a CEO or exec could be outrageously overpaid and not harm them overall.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#247

Post by tmaly »

gregdoesit wrote: post #11

Got to give it to Larry Page and Sergey Brin for having their cake and also eating it. They control ~51% of voting power with shares thanks to owning ~85% of class B shares. They have had the benefit of someone else running the company for 8 years - and increasing the value of it - and now, when things are not looking great, it’s Sundar Pichai who gets the blame, and the focus on his compensation: and not those who s…

You can’t really blame Sundar, his job is to keep the shareholders happy.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#248

Post by iamgopal »

runarberg wrote: post #210
anony23 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the world's smallest violin to those poor Google engineers who have some of the highest compensation in tech.

First of all, I don’t care if they are well payed, their bosses and shareholders are still taking more profits than they deserve. Second, Google’s workers famously include many many contractors who do not get the same benefits as Google’s direct employees. This is exploitation. Third, the exploitation runs deeper than just google workers. Their customers include companies which are paying a bunch of money to use thei…

Well seeing constantly degrading quality of Google products, I would say that Google engineers also taking more compensation than they deserve.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#249

Post by dahwolf »

Tech workers better hope that rate hikes stop soon, otherwise CEOs might take Musk as inspiration.

Almost everybody agrees that his actions are extreme and often stupendous. But that's not the point. The point is that he fired 80% and Twitter is still operational.

Also, Twitter 5 times smaller than before seems to fairly rapidly change/add features, whilst old Twitter never shipped anything.

Nobody should adapt these crazy tactics, but it's an (extreme) demonstration of fluff and discovering core value. You don't have to go Musk mode, but Musk demonstrated the effect of a decimation of the work force.

That suggests to CEOs that one might go half-Musk mode. There's a lot of room to cut when you previously hired entire villages each year. Not 80%. But 30%? Why not. 40%? Maybe.

Consider Facebook's "year of optimization". They hired so many people that it takes them a year to figure our what all these people are even doing. What you have normalized as "normal times" were in fact dot com boom times.

Re: Googlers angry about CEO’s $226M pay after cuts in perks and 12,000 layoffs

#250

Post by cced »

renewiltord wrote: post #132
cced wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we account for inflation when we say market cap increased by $xB? How can we differentiate an actual increase in value as opposed to currency debasement?

You measure it as beta against something broad like the total market or the S&P500.

If the currency gets debased and money flows into the market wouldn’t it also just debase the S&P500 equally?
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