Live data from Hacker News

MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

theverge.com

241–250 of 753 posts

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#241
post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

[deleted]

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#242
post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

It is marked as read when you are reading it. When you are switching to another mail, it displays it as read. No need to manually mark it as read. *EDIT* Just noticed that there is a setting for this: Under Options in the webmail you can switch this between: * Mark as read as soon it has been choosen * Mark as read after delay in seconds * Mark as read after selection changes * Do not mark as read automatically

Oh web outlook ugh. People where I work hate Outlook web. It's not intuitive. Shared mailboxes in web Outlook are a pain they dont show on the left sidebar they need to be opened in a separate tab. Terrible for efficiency. Except "out of office" which for shared mailboxes it can't be disabled in non-web Outlook you have to do it in web.

My day and job are based on Microsoft weirdness.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#243
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's not what you think it is. Alternative browser engines are still disallowed. They are a skin on Apple's Webkit see: https://www.theregister.com/2023/02/07/mozilla_google_apple_...

For the purposes of this discussion I don’t think the underlying engine really matters (I’m not supporting Apple’s rule here). 99% of users are going to be downloading Chrome or FF to have a consistent UX and sync their bookmarks, history and passwords. iOS respects the default browser and mail client in this case.

> I don’t think the underlying engine really matters

It is what makes all the difference here.

Many features that are a Web Standard are unsupported on iOS precisely because Apple refuses to allow alternative engines because they don't want those features on their platform (mostly to favor native apps under the pretext of security, like if Google is not capable of making a secure browser, at least as secure as Safari).

Chrome and Firefox on iOS are not the same Chrome and iOS that run on all the other platforms, they are basically Safari.

It does matters.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're talking about this like Microsoft ever did anything differently than what you wrote? Since when have they focused 100% on just building great products and competing fairly? They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. But you need to remember your org charts; the Edge and Windows 11 decision-makers are not the same people with the same incentives.

> They did a wonderful job with C# and .NET Core. Ah yes, the ecosystems where features such as hot reloading would only be in paid offers unless the ecosystem didn't start to shout at them when their plans changed from "of course it's free" to "sorry, paid customers only". > But you need to remember your org charts; the Edge and Windows 11 decision-makers are not the same people with the same incentives. I couldn't…

We often look at companies as a single monolith but that isn't conductive to productive discussions.

OP is giving a different perspective, a more detailed and granular one.

One interest counterpoint would be that the problematic behavior is encouraged by the CEO, then the different units wouldn't matter much (well, unless they have a tendency to go rogue). Anyway, all idle speculation on my part but I welcome the perspective.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#245
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, in any company larger than 500 people at least, the IT admin has little say in the matter. These sorts of decisions are taken higher up, and the admin just has to live with it.

Hell, my company is just 35 people and I'm head of all things tech (CTO) and even I can't get Microsoft out of the company. It works "good enough" and change is really hard for many people.

Same in a 7 person company. Got voted down in favor of Teams because the "learning curve" of anything else wasn't worth their time. This despite the confusing and ridiculous UX of Teams.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#247
post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

Purely my subjective experience but the MS tools seem designed to keep the users that have been using Outlook on the desktop for decades. I get ornery when it doesn't work the way I'm used to.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#248
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong, but audio types are standardized, while geo or map ones are not. Meaning that it wouldn’t be much of an issue to open an audio file with anything that isn’t Apple Music, but FindMy would need to support a myriad of map app formats to work as intended.

URL types for geo locations are standardized. And even if they weren't or the standard isn't sufficient (which one could reasonably argue), you are talking about features made by the platform owner. Apple can trivially declare "this is the iOS geo share format, apps intending to share or handle shared geolocations should use this format" and expect the ecosystem to deal with it.

That’s a good point, although it seems that this kind of behavior, at least specifically to map apps, is quite common.

Out of curiosity, I opened the Google app in iOS, searched for a place, and tapped on the result to open a map. Even with the default app set to Apple Maps, it goes straight to Google Maps.

I haven’t been able to find the correct MIME type or URL protocol for a generic geo call, either, which makes me suspect that there is more to it than it seems.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not answering for the GP: There are so many people out there, who should know better, or even do know better. Yet, for whatever reason install VS Code instead of VS Codium. Even when you inform people about the existence of VS Codium, they still don't move and keep using VS Code. It is like they do not even care at all. That this is even allowed to happen in organizations is already an oversight. It should not even b…

> there is telemetry VSCode telemetry can be fully disabled. > and non-reproducible builds Who cares? Most users don’t need a reproducible build of software they want to use, they need working software. > and whatever other mistreatment of them as useds. Calling people “useds” isn’t going to help your case.

> VSCode telemetry can be fully disabled.

Well, how do you know that? How do you verify, that all telemetry is really turned off, without being able to reproduce the build? How many people truly turn it off after install? How do you know whether there are any other unwanted parts in the software you just installed? What about the next update? Do you want to run a package sniffer after each update, over the course of a month or so, checking all traffic in detail, to be sure that it only ever communicates to the outside world, when there was a justified purpose?

You are giving away sovereignty of your own device/machine.

> Who cares? Most users don’t need a reproducible build of software they want to use, they need working software.

It it this kind of mentality that is the problem. Your "who cares" is not going to fly, because it leads right into the abyss of surveillance and spyware. "who cares" is the basis for not being informed about ones tech choices. The basis for not being aware of issues regarding privacy. At a properly managed software making company it would also result in you being told, that it is part of your job to care. To answer the question, if there was any question: I care. Informed people care. People with ideals care.

The issue with not caring is also, that organizations will draw the wrong conclusions. They might impose rules, which force me to use some tool I do not want to use, simply because "everyone is OK with it", while those people all don't even care. If they don't care, they should not get a say in the matter and should not be a decision basis or a point of reasoning for making a decision. This is how the collective uninformedness and carelessness results in bad decisions. Basically the majority drags down the minority, for the worse of all of us.

> Calling people “useds” isn’t going to help your case.

Well, that is what we are, when we allow ourselves to be spied on. They use us and our data to drive data mining, profiling and ultimately profits. Besides, I wouldn't throw it into faces in 1-on-1 conversations, for the sake of a constructive conversation, even if it is the truth, because it runs the risk of the other person (a) not even understanding what it means, (b) thinking they misheard and replace with "users", and (c) risking them to be offended and turning deaf.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#250
post #171

Interesting timing. 2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams. I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago. Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also…

It is marked as read when you are reading it. When you are switching to another mail, it displays it as read. No need to manually mark it as read. *EDIT* Just noticed that there is a setting for this: Under Options in the webmail you can switch this between: * Mark as read as soon it has been choosen * Mark as read after delay in seconds * Mark as read after selection changes * Do not mark as read automatically

Thanks. That was the issue in my case.

The default configuration is: * Mark as read after selection changes

Which in my opinion is really weird. I've been using email for 20 years and no other client I've used works this way. It's so inefficient since you need to click into a previously read email to mark a different email as read.

But, I did switch things to mark it as read when chosen which fixes it.

Post reply on HN