Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#241

Post by andreygrehov » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

kklimonda wrote: post #199

andreygrehov wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No. Nobody should care what Russia has to say about another country voluntarily wanting to (and joining) NATO I'm sorry, but Russia's concern is not out of thin air - you can only join NATO if your membership is not a threat to your border countries. This is one of the rules of NATO itself.

Given that NATO is a defensive alliance, I don't see how such a rule would make much sense. Can you spell that rule out, and link to the official document?

Yes, I will try to find it.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#242

Post by dijit » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:44 PM UTC

yeahwhatever10 wrote: post #226

INTPenis wrote: post #157

As a Swede this makes me happy, partially because Finland shares a lot of their border with Russia and can now feel safe knowing they have the might of 30 nations behind them, but also because we're now surrounded by NATO countries. So no need for us to join, right? Right?! Let's remain neutral and a free haven for political dissidents and potential refugees of the future, right?!!

Is that how NATO is spoken about in Europe, that it is the might of 30 nations and not just the US?

Like all things such as this, it's controversial and there is no such thing as a unified vision.

For some people, yes... In fact US involvement is largely a controversial topic because joining NATO, to some people and politicians, is tantamount to putting US military bases in your country.

The reality is, when people talk about the benefits of NATO they will strongly lean on the fact that it's many countries in a pact together. Decidedly not hiding behind the coat-tails of the US- in fact the US involvement, at least in political circles, is generally seen as a net-negative.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#243

Post by b112 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

jabl wrote: post #179

goalieca wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? Russia says a lot of things, often contradictory, but what really speaks is their actions. Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism.

> Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism. I agree. An additional reason AFAICS is that a slavic country, similar to Russia in many ways, making moves towards becoming a liberal democracy was seen as a threat to the domestic power of Putin and his inner circle. The Maidan revolution spreading to Moscow is surely a nightmare scenario for Putin.

The Maidan revolution spreading to Moscow is surely a nightmare scenario for Putin.

I doubt that, unless Putin is completely delusional. The guy has, at best, almost no time left before he either dies, due to age, or dies, due to age/decline + the perception of weakness, and therefore assassination.

If Putin is still running Russia in 6 months I'll be surprised, and if in 2 years, astonished.

I guess maybe he was concerned a decade ago, but he's all short term thought now.

It's likely why the whole Ukraine thing seems a bit nutty, but if you know you have a very short time, and you think you're the only guy to do something, caution to the wind!

IMO, this is what makes Putin dangerous. He knows he is checking out.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#244

Post by asynchronous » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

meghan_rain wrote: post #2

Congratulations to dictator Vladimir Vladimirowich Putin for being the Chief NATO Evangelist!

Really gotta give it to their foreign policy for pushing something through that has been nearly 80 years in the making

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#245

Post by ranger207 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #21

sprash wrote: post #8

[flagged]

How many NATO countries has Russia attacked in the history of NATO? How many non-NATO countries? Moreover, Finland’s military and diplomatic bureaucracy was already well-integrated into NATO, so there isn’t a _lot_ of additional organization (at least as far as these things go).

During the time period that NATO existed, the USSR invaded Czechoslovakia and Hungary. Expanding back a few years before the creation of NATO (which I'd argue is a reasonable allowance because a a defensive pact it was formed directly in response to some of these events), you can also include the invasions of Poland and the Baltic states

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#246

Post by KoftaBob » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

29athrowaway wrote: post #31

[flagged]

> the BRICS surpassed the G7 in terms of GDP

Let me guess, you read ZeroHedge daily?

Total GDP (Nominal) of the G7 countries: $43.48T

Total GDP (Nominal) of the BRICS countries: $26T

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#247

Post by boeingUH60 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

Score a win for the US, NATO, and the west. Putin is a weak fraud who has been exposed…can’t wait for his regime to collapse, all without the west lifting a finger.

When you meet a mad paranoid dog like Putin, the best thing is to bait them and let them eat themselves just like Putin has done.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#248

Post by KptMarchewa » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

andreygrehov wrote: post #161

goalieca wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? Russia says a lot of things, often contradictory, but what really speaks is their actions. Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism.

[flagged]

>Denazification

Why does russia openly support Alexey Milchakov and it's openly nazi Rusich organization then? Maybe because it's a non point and invented reason? Putin loves nazis that support him.

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#249

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

foverzar wrote: post #67

GalenErso wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If his former exes asked for a restraining order against him, what incentive or assurance does he have for allowing them to break up with him?" The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods while wooing foreign investors, but Putin took the history books he read too seriously and thinks he can pull another round of territorial conquests. I don't see how…

> The problem is Russia. Russia could be a normal country like its neighbors and make money from trading goods > No one is encroaching on Russia's borders. This is really horrifying how the perspectives on the current directly oppose each other, completely Orwellian. It's not like it's some ancient history, all of this is following the lessons learned from interactions in the 2000s - when the US had been violating th…

> Second Chechen War, Georgia

What? Neither of those involved NATO at all?

Re: Finland becomes the 31st member of NATO

#250

Post by haconBagrid » Tue, Apr 04, 2023, 2:46 PM UTC

andreygrehov wrote: post #161

goalieca wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be smarter to actually listen to what Russia is trying to say? Russia says a lot of things, often contradictory, but what really speaks is their actions. Invading Ukraine wasn’t about denazification, or nato threat, or anything except naked imperialism.

[flagged]

Russia has a different definition of Nazi.

To Russia, everyone who opposes them is a Nazi.