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Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

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Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#241

Post by pmontra »

antirez wrote: post #180

Please, don't think Italians are like that. It's just this stupid government. For instance in Italian, unlike Spanish, French, ..., there are no italianized words for all the computer science words, we just use English. In general there is not a big sentiment of culture self-defence. But this government is trying to do things that will appeal the dumb people voting for it.

Thinking about a standard computer, accessories and concepts, there are no common Italian words for computer, mouse, touchpad, touchscreen, scanner, web, link, app, database, word processor, bit, byte and the defunct floppy disk. Everything else is commonly named in Italian. Keyboard, memory, disk (in general, but hard disk is in English), screen, pen drives, power unit, mother board (this is maybe 50-50), folders, icons, programs, processes, windows, buttons, sort, filter, search, rows, columns, cells, sheets.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#242

Post by pastacacioepepe »

giantg2 wrote: post #136
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

To be fair, American culture is not homogeneous either. There are multiple cultures throughout the country. Whatever version of thinking you're talking about is likely has both supporters and detractors here.

It's not a version of USA culture (not American), it's the propagation of Capitalism, of the "american" dream, of USA exceptionalism.

The idea that their army is the coolest and will save us from aliens, that their bilionaires (oligarchs) are secretly superheroes, that foreign leaders are crooks secretly plotting to conquer the world and so on.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#243

Post by qlm »

tmtvl wrote: post #223
seydor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

american culture is almost homogeneous. ask a european visitor

Oh no, Peruvian culture and Canadian culture, for example, are very distinctly different, at least to my Belgian eyes.

This isn't what they meant, but I suspect you know that.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#244

Post by InCityDreams »

dfxm12 wrote: post #153
ghusto wrote: post #95

On the one hand: If your culture needs a preservation movement, it's not a culture, but a relic. Culture is defined by people, not some sacred thing that needs to be preserved. How much of the Italian cuisine they're trying to protect would exist if they had the same attitude in the 1500s, when the tomato was introduced to Italy? On the other hand: I think countries should resist global cultural homogenisation. No of…

This is coming from an increasingly right wing, nationalist, Italian government. This is the type of government that will disqualify a person or way of thinking just because of where it comes from, and this type of xenophobia is kinda dangerous. Plus, the emphasis on "correct use of the Italian language and its pronunciation" also seems to discriminate against people who speak southern dialects. After all, Tu vuò fà…

An Northern dialects, too.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#245

Post by Quarrelsome »

satellite2 wrote: post #224
Quarrelsome wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

populism will always seek to implement inexpensive grandstanding like this, because its cheap and requires zero-competence and in return for spending zero effort and money you get to virtue signal to electors that are nationalists. I wouldn't class this as anywhere on the pendulum as its not an economic policy and social issues are a bit of a fudge into the classical left/right spectrum.

German was largely influenced and modified by nazism. Proper German words and syntax were pushed. This is part of a trend that's far from virtue signaling. Year after year the initiatives of the far right get more extreme but don't feel like so because they're only a small increments above the previous one.

> This is part of a trend that's far from virtue signaling.

I would argue that signalling fascist virtues is still a form of virtue signalling. It just depends on what you consider to be a virtue. But yea, any attempts at cultural renaissance are vulnerable to nationalist and even fascist tendencies.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#246

Post by seydor »

pcrh wrote: post #231
seydor wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no 'average european culture' as inter-european differences are bigger than US-europe divide. The US is basically our common cultural base now. > secularism, gun-rights, access to abortion, universal healthcare, labour laws, privacy and regulation At least 4 of those issues are american , not european. this just goes to show how much attention europeans pay to the US issues instead of our own issues (aging of…

>There's no 'average european culture Where do you live? Are you not aware that there is a very active and ongoing war in Europe which was triggered by the desire of a certain country to be more "European", and opposition to that desire.

ukraine was and is a european country. it wanted to be allied to the west and nato though

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#247

Post by lm28469 »

zaroth wrote: post #218
lm28469 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Bootlicking proles? Please do better.

How do you call the working class defending longer working hours/lives ? They're literally proles, by definition, and are pushing for things which aren't in their own interests

It reminds me of "socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires"

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#248

Post by Quarrelsome »

seydor wrote: post #165
Quarrelsome wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US is basically our common cultural base now This is wishful thinking. People pay a lot of attention to the US due to its cultural output and importance in geo-politics but when they open the door they still pay attention to their own locality which has its own context. > At least 4 of those issues are american , not european. I'm sorry, how are those issues not European? Do you think Europeans aren't human or…

> how are those issues not European? because they are not contested in europe, only in the US > privacy is a much greater It's nowhere near as important as housing or employment i think. Strict privacy was mainly championed by German Greens, not a pan-european issue

> because they are not contested in europe, only in the US

every single one of those issues gets discussed in Europe. The US does not have a monopoly on social issues, I fear you are just showing the limits of your perspective.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#249

Post by tossaway0 »

Levitz wrote: post #215
hunglee2 wrote: post #14

I think we (Americans and Europeans alike) wholly underestimate how Americanised European culture is becoming. This is an observation rather than a criticism as I don't know whether this is 'good' or 'bad' but it is noticeable phenomena manifest through language, and probably an unintended consequence of the dependency of Europe on US communication technology, leading to the import of US communication styles, politic…

I live in the Basque Country, where there is considerable effort put by the government to preserve Basque language and culture. It has always seemed like a losing battle to me. Basque people might speak more Basque, but they still see Netflix, listen to international bands via Spotify and immerse themselves in international trends via Instagram and Tiktok. My conclusion is that the government does this because langua…

I'm Basque but have lived outside the Basque Country for a long time. I actually now find the cultural efforts of the Basque government to have been beneficial, even if most people I know would call them onerous. I think it has played out well for the Basque Country to emphasize Basqueness (whatever that can mean) as a way to distinguish a place that may otherwise have stood out even less on a global stage.

Re: Italian government seeks to penalize the use of English words

#250

Post by seydor »

tmtvl wrote: post #223
seydor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

american culture is almost homogeneous. ask a european visitor

Oh no, Peruvian culture and Canadian culture, for example, are very distinctly different, at least to my Belgian eyes.

and so are Italian and Finnish cultures. But inter-USA cultures are as differnt as local cultures are within a single european country.

Would be interesting to have a distance metric for cultures , however

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