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The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

241–250 of 514 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> And it's no coincidence young female teens are by far the most susceptible to transition to the opposite role: social media tells them "they were born in the wrong bodies". Um, statistically, trans women are more common than trans men.

Not for teenagers, not anymore; there was a striking trend reversal exactly around 2010: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/tavistock-transg...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument also applies to toddlers (1-10), Young students & workers (20-30), established workers (30-40)… pretty much any decade actually. So no. It might not. Not for the reason you say at least. Improvements in diagnosis, self awareness and hospitalisation rates would have to happen specifically to teenagers, and unless someone can cite a specific reason why this is the case I just don't believe it. The increas…

Not necessarily; teenagers are 1) still under parental health insurance and therefore can get medical care, 2) broadly have adults looking out for them in a way adults don't look out for other adults, 3) are capable of self-introspection and increased communication capacity as well as self-identification in a way children are not, 4) have the agency to advocate for their mental health needs in a way children cannot..…

I guess it makes sense… the difference in how much other people are affected however is so stark that this does suggest a generational thing.

And then there are the hospitalisation rates. Did we lower the seriousness threshold to get our kids to the hospital? Unless they were talking about psychiatry hospitals that doesn't seem likely.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> And it's no coincidence young female teens are by far the most susceptible to transition to the opposite role: social media tells them "they were born in the wrong bodies". Um, statistically, trans women are more common than trans men.

> Um, statistically, trans women are more common than trans men.

I think it is somewhat more common for people who are AFAB to identify as non-binary than for people who are AMAB to do so, which if you consider it part of the same broad class of things might be sufficient to tip the balance back to that side.

Not that I endorse the “social contagion” theory GP is spouting, in the least.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#244
post #185
post #150

I would like to see this conversation turn from "Did phones cause these problems" to "Here's exactly how phones caused these problems". There are many ways to use technology, some better than others. We need literacy in these areas for both parents and children, and things are moving so fast, it's the companies that are getting to write the rules, not the culture. It's time for the culture to push back but we need to…

If we take the approach of not overthinking it, we might notice that many of these mental illnesses feature dissociation, and what does an iPhone do if not dissociate you from your physical being? Teenagers (and younger) in their formative years are pouring a significant part of their lives into virtual environments and identities. Their digital lives are literally disconnected from their physical lives. Their sense…

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#245

(Seemingly) Inevitable climate change and ecological destruction, growing income inequality and falling standards of living, a deathly pandemic that's still killing people while we pretend everything is back to normal (+ long covid probably bringing about a disability crisis in 3-5 years), increasing tensions between various nuclear-capable states (Russia, China) and the West, changes in the age distribution in most…

World events and economy aside, there are also clear trends with teenagers (and people as a whole) having fewer close friends than ever - loneliness is more common than ever. Our culture and society as a whole is declining in its ability to foster community and friendship, which really is deadly in its own way.

Imagine that: a culture that promotes individualism and the pursuit of profit over all else leads to a generation of people with few close friends and lots of loneliness and stress.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#246
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not saying Dobbs doesn’t matter, only that I both 1) doubt it’s a central driver of the trend Yeah, I’m not saying it (or reproductive rights & health care more generally) is the central driver of the trend, I’m saying its one of the key reasons why if someone asked me, today, what group in American society would be most depressed, my intuitive response would be “white liberal teen girls” (particularly, its a k…

Interesting. I would much rather be a (white liberal) teen girl today than in ~2012, but I can see how insofar as Dobbs is only a manifestation of existing trends, I might be in the minority. It's just hard to wrap my head around what this trend would be, or why teens started picking up on it in 2012. I am not conscious of any major modern debates around women's rights except abortion/birth control, and I see no part…

> It's just hard to wrap my head around what this trend would be, or why teens started picking up on it in 2012.

One reason could be they started talking to each other more. Women and girls who had similar life experience shared them on the internet. This is how the whole Me Too movement started; the experiences shared during the Me Too movement were old, but it was the internet and social media which acted as a catalyst to dislodge them from the past and bring them into the present.

> I am not conscious of any major modern debates around women's rights except abortion/birth control

Don't you recall the 2016 Presidential election? There was a huge debate about whether or not a woman was ready to be President of the United States. I don't know about your family, but in my family people thought it very clever to say that a woman could never become president, because her period would make her too volatile. This kind of rhetoric may have flowed right past you, but it wasn't lost on women (especially the very cogent point that men have in fact started most wars in all of human history).

The outcome of that election was that America chose a serial sexual predator who has admitted to spying on women in changing rooms, has raped women, and who has admitted to using his power and prestige to assault women. It wasn't lost on women that this man, with a famously volatile temper, was chosen over a women because he was viewed as more trustworthy and more stable than her.

That man ended his term by waging a violent coup against the United States government with his supporters, who themselves made an effort assassinate the vice president. Yet it was the female candidate that America considered a priori too "volatile".

> I thought only ~8% of women had abortions, but in looking it up while writing this comment apparently it's more like 25% (so abortion & related issues affect way more women/girls than I expected).

As with rape, the number of women who have abortions and the number of women who report abortions are quite different. That number is going to diverge even more now that it's illegal and criminalized in many jurisdictions.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#247

I'm a father of teen kids, teacher and educator. I don't think that there is a single reason here. All mentioned things contribute – social media pressure, climate problems, economical crisis etc. But I'd like to add another one – declining quality of education. I see increasing number of teens depressed because they don't have teachers and their education isn't good enough for jobs they'd like to get in future. And…

Yeah, The US education system seems to have more money than most countries, but we're still 37th in the world for in Math last I checked.

Whatever is happening in public schools, you'd do well to increase your child's odds by putting them into something else if you can afford it.

Private school, tutoring, homeschooling, college (dual-enrollment), etc..

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"that is constrained by a gender role where aesthetic appeal and social interactions are the most valuable assets?" In theory we should have seen a spike and then slow decline as gender norms and roles continue to become less segregating. "Yet other categories see linear or token increases." Yeah, because other categories may manifest their problems differently. Such as young men turning to violence and drugs more th…

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Hmm, I was going to write something that disagreed, but I do see a point there. Although you left out some of the connections and it's not specifically what we're talking about. I'm not sure that it was this article, but a different one mentioned that the self harm and suicides were 2x-3x higher for LGBTQ teens. Basically, we're seeing a much higher rate in one subgroup which could account for the bulk of the increase as their representation in the overall group rises.

So I can see the pressures associated with acceptance or challenges of LGBTQ teens as a possible increase as they make up an increasing part of that demographic. However, I don't think that gender roles specifically play a part since more things are continuously becoming available and accepted regardless of gender.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#249
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It happening in rare instances isn’t sufficient for the OP to claim “we aren’t allowed to clap at events because clapping is too violent”.

I was replying to this statement, "They made it up." They didn't make it up, proof was provided that they didn't make it up.

They made it up, because we are certainly still allowed to clap at events.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international – Part 1: The Anglosphere

#250
post #230

(Seemingly) Inevitable climate change and ecological destruction, growing income inequality and falling standards of living, a deathly pandemic that's still killing people while we pretend everything is back to normal (+ long covid probably bringing about a disability crisis in 3-5 years), increasing tensions between various nuclear-capable states (Russia, China) and the West, changes in the age distribution in most…

Or the world has always had issues and the lense through which we now view the world is an everpresent fear coaster. Step away from the news & social media for a few months. You can't effect the outcome anyway and you might find you're happier.

Ignorance is indeed bliss, right up until they’re at your door. I like to have advance warning.
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