Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#241

Post by ignoramous » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:09 AM UTC

matheusmoreira wrote: post #191

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the blog past Coinbase General Counsel asks for "guidance". The guidance for future "crypto entrepreneurs" is going to come from the outcomes of these enforcement actions. CryptoExpert: "We want guidance. We want regulation." SEC: "Your product/service is a security." CryptoExpert: "No it's not!" Damodoran called cryptocurrency "currency made by the paranoid for the paranoid." [paraphrase] Let's be honest, coopera…

> The "cryptocurrency" concept seems to be based on a mistrust of government-issued currency and a mistrust of government more generally. It certainly was. Some coins like monero still are all about that. Most of the cryptocurrency space turned into stocks though. They even reinvented banks.

tbf, recreating banks but without regulation is one way to go about orchestrating once-in-a-generation wealth transfer from... one LP to another.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#242

Post by nscalf » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:10 AM UTC

soco wrote: post #214

roenxi wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He probably would. I have access to a bunch of good investment opportunities that US citizens don't have, because they are "protected" from accidentally making money. I have a stack of little pamphlets outlining interesting investment deals in Australia all labelled with "don't show this to anyone in the US, if you are a US person this isn't for you and we ask that you don't read it". This isn't crypto, only standard…

I guess if you have a problem with the laws of the country or state you are in, you should take it with your local legislator. They're the only ones able to do something about it. Skirting the legislation because one considers it "stupid" is not gonna bring anybody very far.

Let’s not pretend like anyone thinks we can reasonably reach out to someone and have any impact on what the SEC does. This country runs off money, not voter sentiment, and we all know it.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#243

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:12 AM UTC

legutierr wrote: post #236

hef19898 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swiss =|= Credit Suisse Also, I know of a bridge that is up for sale. A Nigerian prince told my late uncle who used to work there in the oil and gas sector. But don't tell the Americans, no need to waste such a great investment opportunity.

Credit Suisse certainly does not encompass all Swiss, but it certainly includes a number of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy The fact that you are equating this major Swiss bank to bridge salesmen and Nigerian princes kind of proves OP’s point.

It seems you did not read OPs comment completely, did you? The second refered to his investment opportunuties that have "not for US citizens" written on them.

And Credit Suisse wasn't the most stable bank to begin with, despite being the second largest in Switzerland. So of course their bonds have been riskier than others. On the other hand, hadn't Credit Suisse failed those bond returns would have been higher as well. No idea why people just don't get the link between risk and returns

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#244

Post by ETH_start » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:18 AM UTC

soco wrote: post #217

ETH_start wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.

Maybe if we compared the market size of the Pokemon cards trading with the crypto trading, and also the risks of one compared to the other, we might get a hint why one is in the spotlights while the other not. Not all problems can and have to be addressed at once, so having a priority list to apply your limited resources makes only sense.

If the SEC began interpreting securities laws as designating Pokemon card, wine and luxury watches securities, Congress would change securities laws. And that's why they don't. They're exploiting the novelty of cryptocurrency to give it this designation without a broad backlash.

As a matter of law though, the case for being a security is no stronger cryptocurrencies than for Pokemon cards.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#245

Post by roenxi » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #243

legutierr wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit Suisse certainly does not encompass all Swiss, but it certainly includes a number of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metonymy The fact that you are equating this major Swiss bank to bridge salesmen and Nigerian princes kind of proves OP’s point.

It seems you did not read OPs comment completely, did you? The second refered to his investment opportunuties that have "not for US citizens" written on them. And Credit Suisse wasn't the most stable bank to begin with, despite being the second largest in Switzerland. So of course their bonds have been riskier than others. On the other hand, hadn't Credit Suisse failed those bond returns would have been higher as wel…

Investment opportunities in major Australian companies. You might have your own thoughts about the Australian market, but we're hardly talking wild risk here. Although, in fairness, Transurban Group probably does sell bridges and Rio Tinto/BHP probably do a lot of business with Nigerian Princes so you might get some irony points. But the profits are there.

But let us not get distracted from the main point, the US regulations in the area are the stuff of laughter. They're literally being forbidden from raking in easy money by their own government for no good reason.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#246

Post by ETH_start » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:22 AM UTC

libraryatnight wrote: post #195

ETH_start wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such law. Pokemon is no different than a digital token with respect to the applicability of securities law, the SEC's inconsistent treatment of the respective assets notwithstanding. And your argument begs the question of why any restrictions should be placed on people buying/selling financial products to regiment how they do it.

If you think any of this is analogous to a pokemon card or people collecting pokemon cards, your understanding of what is going on right now is pretty much useless.

They're identical in terms of all legal tests for an asset being a security, your insults notwithstanding. And if you contend otherwise, it would be constructive that you articulate why instead of engaging in more low-brow sophistry.

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#247

Post by ETH_start » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:24 AM UTC

DeRock wrote: post #190

ETH_start wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge number of crypto projects never advertised their tokens as an investment, and explicitly and repeatedly stated that they are not investments and should not be expected to appreciate, yet the SEC still charged them with promoting an unregistered security.

Can you give an example of one?

Pretty much all of them: they go out of their way to state it is not an investment.

Taken the GNT token, used in the Golem network, for example:

https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62...

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#248

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:28 AM UTC

cududa wrote: post #14

tzm wrote: post #5

> "We asked the SEC specifically to identify which assets on our platforms they believe may be securities, and they declined to do so." Sums up the case quite well.

No it doesn’t. They’ve literally told them in the past when they were creating financial products that they were securities. Their entire schtik is to say “We called it something different so it’s not a security.” SEC: “Yes it is.” Coinbase: “The SEC won’t engage with us and tell us what aspects of our business is a security.” SEC: “1) that’s not how securities law works, you’re the one that has to hire lawyers 2) we…

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#249

Post by skywhopper » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:28 AM UTC

thepasswordis wrote: post #148

I can take my money and put it into a slot machine, gamble it on horses, gamble it on sports games. I can buy useless thousand dollar sneakers, I can buy pokemon cards. I can waste my money on absurdly overpriced art, give it to scammy non-profits, donate it to scammy spoiler political candidates. In some states I can use my money to hire hookers, or buy drugs. But if I want to buy crypto, all of a sudden that is a p…

Almost everything you listed is heavily regulated. Why shouldn’t crypto be regulated as well?

Re: Coinbase issued Wells notice by SEC

#250

Post by skywhopper » Thu, Mar 23, 2023, 11:29 AM UTC

ETH_start wrote: post #247

DeRock wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of one?

Pretty much all of them: they go out of their way to state it is not an investment. Taken the GNT token, used in the Golem network, for example: https://assets.website-files.com/62446d07873fde065cbcb8d5/62...

Can you name one?