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Cities: Skylines II

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Re: Cities: Skylines II

#241

Post by Raz2 »

raincole wrote: post #236
satvikpendem wrote: post #83

I find it hilarious that EA had the concept down and just blew their opportunity with Simcity 2013 (always online (which by the way was actually not true, people cracked the online requirement within the first day or so), had to contract with other users for basic services like sewage and electricity), paving the way for competitors like Cities: Skylines to take the lead instead. This reminds me of the same thing tha…

> He's made over $300 million in revenue so far and might be the first solo game dev (or even regular software dev) to hit $1 billion in the course of the game's existence. So you use revenue as a measuremeant of success, which is very reasonable. > (hint: they don't want always-online DRM-filled games that nickle and dime you with microtransactions (well, most people anyway, there are always gacha/gambling-type whal…

I disagree. Target audience is not the same. Stardew Valley and Cities Skyline do not compete with Clash of Clans.

Making something unique can make more revenue than replicating other successful model with hight competition.

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#243

Post by vintermann »

syntheweave wrote: post #141
izacus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could even begin with a concept of mixed zoning that's so standard in many world cities. The usual "stores on the street, apartments above" design. (I was really surprised that actual USA is building cities the same way SimCity modeled - with complete separation between commercial and residental areas).

The limits of every simulation game come into play where they start to "cartoon" how the world actually works, which has always been the case with city builders in the Simcity mold. The approaches to traffic, crime, pollution etc all act in a way to give an impression of the real world while not really going deep into the subject and making the solutions be a bit lock-and-key, fitting our existing norms rather than p…

One rather big cartooning, which the old Sim Cities did better, has to do with development over time. In the first Sim City you started in 1900. And although the implementation of any kind of historical progress was extremely limited (it took a while to get access to nuclear plants as I recall), my imagination did a lot of the work. (Listening to Dire Straits "Telegraph Road" helped too). And SC2000, the last I played, had a lot of progress elements and even the memorable "arcology" futuristic buildings.

In Cities: Skylines, you start in 2010 as I recall. Not only is it rather more implausible to start a city in the wilderness then than in 1900, but you have idiots tweeting at you - forever.

I'd love to see a city builder where the challenge wasn't about urban planning, but in adapting to a changing world. ("Then came the trains, then came the ore, then there was the hard times, then there was a war")

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#244

Post by sandos »

geraltofrivia wrote: post #133
TechnicolorByte wrote: post #2

Not much info other than the fact that it’ll release sometime this year on PS5, XSX, and PC. Teaser trailer is just a bunch of cinematics.

If foreshadowing is one of their intention with the teaser, I'm afraid they'll push raytracing very hard. Their trailer had a lot of 'reflect in water', 'reflect in glass panes' moments.

Eugh, graphics is the least interesting things about these kind of games! I would take better simulation and pixel grapics rather than fake simulation and "RTX ON".

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#245

Post by morsch »

nitwit005 wrote: post #220
jpetso wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't really spent much time on simulation games past SimCity 2000, but I find this odd. Even the most winsome cities and countries in the world are struggling. Instead of scenarios or AI, why wouldn't it be the case that success invites more problems? You've got issues with immigration happening too rapidly for the population's taste, inflation devalues your accumulated resources at a more rapid pace, essential…

> Design success as the enemy of success, and you never run out of issues to solve. And a game almost everyone will hate, as it slaps you in the face and spits on you for succeeding.

I'm sure you could design it in a way that people wouldn't mind. Most games get harder as you succeed at them. Rimworld is a builder game that does it. And not just through increased complexity, but by making the environment more hostile.

Having a dynamic environment is one of the things that I've long wanted city sims to have. SimCity always had disasters, which is in the same vein, but they always felt like an afterthought (or a joke, in the case of alien or monster attacks). City simulations pretend to be serious flaw toys, so let me deal with a recession (or even a boom), or a dioxine contamination, or civil unrest. Not with a minigame, but let me deal with the city management aspects of those events.

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#246

Post by db48x »

ztrww wrote: post #237
kridsdale1 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sims style DLCs are just a proxy subscription revenue model. As long as people are engaged consumers you can keep developing. If they don’t care about a particular DLC they don’t have to buy it. Sims 4 now has like 8 years of developer labor in it, if you were to install all the content. The original $30 (after retail cut) a user paid in 2015 wouldn’t have sustained that work.

Having to actually pay a subscription is actually much friendlier to players who want to get into the game a couple of years after it was first released. Of course the DLC model is much more profitable overall

If you're getting into a game years later then you probably don’t want all the content at once. Buy the base game with none of the DLC and play that for a while. Then decide which DLC will best enhance your current game; for example you might decide you want an amazing airport in your current city, so you get the Airports DLC. Or you might prefer a large University campus, so you get that one instead. Spread the content out over a year or two so that you are sure to get your money’s worth. Or just ignore the DLC and download mods and assets from the Steam workshop; you could spend a lifetime doing that and never catch up.

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#247

Post by db48x »

swarnie wrote: post #98
satvikpendem wrote: post #83

I find it hilarious that EA had the concept down and just blew their opportunity with Simcity 2013 (always online (which by the way was actually not true, people cracked the online requirement within the first day or so), had to contract with other users for basic services like sewage and electricity), paving the way for competitors like Cities: Skylines to take the lead instead. This reminds me of the same thing tha…

Simcity 2013 was the first time i asked for a game to be refunded. After that was rejected it became the first time and maybe only time i've used a credit card charge back. I know "boycotts" don't work in the gaming industry but i can honestly say i haven't bought an EA product since. That has been slightly easier by them only churning out yearly sporting games filled with micro transactions mind.

It’s amazing just how few EA games I have purchased in the last 10 years!

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#248

Post by db48x »

mcv wrote: post #227
andybak wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Western-centric Don't you mean US-centric? I don't recall a UK city where there wasn't a grocery store within a 10 minute walk of everywhere and I don't recall visiting a city in Europe that wasn't pretty much the same.

It's very common for Dutch shops to have apartments above them. Sometimes it's where the shop owner lives, sometimes not. Many modern shopping malls include a lot of residential space of some sort. Many neighbourhoods have corner shops. Another interesting thing that these games don't support is reusing existing buildings for a different purpose. Former industrial or dock areas are always popular places to turn into…

There are a couple of mods that let you change what buildings are used for, or rebalance how dense they are. Ploppable RICO, Realistic Population, etc. You can even go so far as to use Procedural Objects with Service Cubes. Use PO to create a completely unique building, then hide a Service Cube inside it that provides housing for 100 families, another that provides some commercial, and another that provides a city service like a school or a morgue. There, instant mixed–use building. Overlap it with a subway station for extra realism.

One of my favorite Youtube series is Cities Skylines: MARS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDX8YQ_aGnY>. The author goes hog–wild and builds a complete city into a dome on Mars using custom assets he created himself (the game comes with asset editors), Procedural Objects, Service Cubes, and liberal use of the Move–It mod. It really is an astounding work of art, but you can also see why Colossal Order didn’t make a game with that level of freedom built–in; it almost becomes more of a 3D modelling program than a game. There’s a fine line between competing with SimCity and competing with Maya or Blender!

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#249

Post by gpetukhov »

legitster wrote: post #31
toasteros wrote: post #20

I have a hard time with freeform city builders like Skylines or SimCity. The amount of unrestrained freedom makes me question why I'm even playing. I have the same issue with The Sims or something like Planet Zoo. That and Skylines giving me a blank canvas paralyses me. How does one plan a city? Where do the roads go? It's the sort of game I want to love, but I just get so overwhelmed by the sheer number of options a…

I similarly get bored of Skylines as soon as the game starts handing you near-infinite money. Making something aesthetically pleasing is only so interesting to me - I want the challenge of constraints. I actually have a similar problem with the Tropico remakes. Tropico 1 was hard . You could not survive a mission without dipping into the dictator toolsets. So striking a constant balance between economics and human ri…

Exactly. It's essentially a sandbox city builder with some highway optimisation thrown in. SimCities 4 was more fun because it was more challenging and felt more like a game, rather than a sandbox.

There are so many interesting gameplay things Skylines could do to be more fun for me like:

1. Subway optimization, e.g faster train cost more but people get to their destination faster, slower trains allow for shorter distances between stations.

2. Parking optimization, e.g. building with parking costs more (because more land has to be bought), but allows people to travel to the place in

3. Low vs high taxes, nanny state or pure capitalism? How would that affect the economy and people's satisfaction?

Re: Cities: Skylines II

#250

Post by red-iron-pine »

PeterisP wrote: post #105
izacus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could even begin with a concept of mixed zoning that's so standard in many world cities. The usual "stores on the street, apartments above" design. (I was really surprised that actual USA is building cities the same way SimCity modeled - with complete separation between commercial and residental areas).

Not only many world cities, but also at least some parts of iconic USA cities like New York City Manhattan, downtown Chicago, etc.

essentially pre-automotive cities vs. post-automotive cities.
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