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Steam Deck: First Anniversary

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Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#241

Post by swatcoder »

friendzis wrote: post #240
ushtaritk421 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam deck is an extension of the already existing PC gaming market. I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. Steam Deck just makes it so those PC gamers will care if a game runs well on Linux. The point isn’t to take over the console market but to defend the PC gaming market from console exclusivity and Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store

I think while Steam Deck is an extension of PC gaming market, but more specifically an extension of this market to wannabe casual PC gamers. There is just nothing out there that beats mouse and keyboard for more competitive sessions of dota, csgo, starcraft. For a very long time a €1000/$1000 nominal would buy a rather capable PC gaming rig. Then cryptocoins happened and suddenly it was 1k for graphics card alone. I…

That’s a weird elitism to stake out.

Countless 1000+ hour per year players aren’t getting caught up in competitive-tier multiplayer content with high performance requirements and yet qualify as something besides “casual wannabe” gamers. The Steam Deck is a nice way to take their serious hobby down the hall or on vacation.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#242

Post by Razengan »

Nice to see so many mentions of the PS Vita here. I gotta use this opportunity to start a Vita appreciation thread :)

It was an awesome device for its time, and ahead of its time, but hindered by poor marketing, proprietary hardware (those memory cards that nobody had), lack of direction (the "2nd generation" and "PS TV" were actually a step backwards!) and probably internal corporate strife.

It had powerful enough hardware, with a vibrant screen, wide array of controls, solid build quality, an OS that was fast and smooth and capable with some innovate UI, and it already had a wide library of existing games through the PSP compatibility.

Few people talk about the rear touchpad but I thought it was genius! Even in titles where it had no effect on the gameplay, like the beautiful Knytt Underground, where the trees in the background would sway as your fingers slid behind the screen, it added a nice new layer of interactivity and immersion.

Such a shame when products like this with clearly a lot of potential and passion in them get left behind, due to the decisions of a few people who didn't really understand them.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#243

Post by friendzis »

swatcoder wrote: post #241
friendzis wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think while Steam Deck is an extension of PC gaming market, but more specifically an extension of this market to wannabe casual PC gamers. There is just nothing out there that beats mouse and keyboard for more competitive sessions of dota, csgo, starcraft. For a very long time a €1000/$1000 nominal would buy a rather capable PC gaming rig. Then cryptocoins happened and suddenly it was 1k for graphics card alone. I…

That’s a weird elitism to stake out. Countless 1000+ hour per year players aren’t getting caught up in competitive-tier multiplayer content with high performance requirements and yet qualify as something besides “casual wannabe” gamers. The Steam Deck is a nice way to take their serious hobby down the hall or on vacation.

Where do you see elitism here? Some games are simply designed for competitive play with mouse and keyboard control. These games require a PC and Deck is not really a target for those games/gamers. Would me stating that keyboard players stand no competitive chance against players with steering wheel in Forza be elitism too?

There are people who want to play games, but cannot or do not want to spare the expense for a gaming rig. Rising component prices have expanded this category. There is very little overlap between competitive gamers and people wanting to be gamers, some of whom are caught by rising component prices. Again, nothing surprising here.

Steam Deck seems to be designed mostly for this market: people who want to play games, have a leaning towards PC games (possibly due to preexisting Steam library), but have no requirement for mouse and keyboard form factor. Steam deck captures the market of people who "would start playing games if cost of the rig was $(cost-of-steam-deck)" AND the market of people "would play PC games if the rig was more portable".

I'm pretty sure that if some compatibility layer, allowing to use Steam libraries on xbox/PhlashSpeed and Switch, existed the Deck would be dead on arrival.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#244

Post by gpderetta »

friendzis wrote: post #243
swatcoder wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a weird elitism to stake out. Countless 1000+ hour per year players aren’t getting caught up in competitive-tier multiplayer content with high performance requirements and yet qualify as something besides “casual wannabe” gamers. The Steam Deck is a nice way to take their serious hobby down the hall or on vacation.

Where do you see elitism here? Some games are simply designed for competitive play with mouse and keyboard control. These games require a PC and Deck is not really a target for those games/gamers. Would me stating that keyboard players stand no competitive chance against players with steering wheel in Forza be elitism too? There are people who want to play games, but cannot or do not want to spare the expense for a g…

> I'm pretty sure that if some compatibility layer, allowing to use Steam libraries on xbox/PhlashSpeed and Switch, existed the Deck would be dead on arrival.

And if my gramma had wheels she would be a bicycle.

The hole point of the Steamdeck is that existing consoles are locked down and would never allow running your existing steam library.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#245

Post by gpderetta »

COGlory wrote: post #198
goosedragons wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Nintendo first party titles hold their value well but you're not playing those on Steam either. 3rd party titles will often be the same price or close enough with the exception of super recent ports of old PC games. Definitely NOT 4-5x more expensive unless you're only comparing to full price not on sale eShop titles to best possible discount on Steam.

If you want to play Nintendo 1st party, you have no choice but Switch. But if you want to play any of the many AAA games that release every year, you can do that on Deck. If we ignore that each is exclusive to the other's platform (i.e. Switch 1st party don't go to Deck, many huge games Deck can play Switch never gets), and just compare the average cost with sales of those "exclusive" games, you high quality games on…

> Nintendo 1st party, you have no choice but Switch

ahem, I hear that Switch emulation works quite well on the Deck.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#246

Post by sincarne »

friendzis wrote: post #243
swatcoder wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a weird elitism to stake out. Countless 1000+ hour per year players aren’t getting caught up in competitive-tier multiplayer content with high performance requirements and yet qualify as something besides “casual wannabe” gamers. The Steam Deck is a nice way to take their serious hobby down the hall or on vacation.

Where do you see elitism here? Some games are simply designed for competitive play with mouse and keyboard control. These games require a PC and Deck is not really a target for those games/gamers. Would me stating that keyboard players stand no competitive chance against players with steering wheel in Forza be elitism too? There are people who want to play games, but cannot or do not want to spare the expense for a g…

The elitism is in calling what is absolutely the largest market for gaming "wannabe". I have sunk tonnes of money and time into gaming, and I spend a lot of time helping friends get familiar with games so they can play with their kids. But I am absolutely not competitive. It's ridiculously insulting for you to call me a "wannabe".

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#248

Post by porkbeer »

bobmaxup wrote: post #108

Having used one a lot, I can say that the ergonomics of the Steam Deck aren't there. I could lay in my bed and play switch games for hours without issue, but with the deck, I need to introduce some resting device to not lose feeling in my hands. Also, its awkward for me compared to any other contoller in terms of trigger reach. Other than that, I still enjoy using it quite a bit.

Never had that issue, but my out of shape buddy had the exact same complaint. Might take it as a cue to evaluate your fitness.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#249

Post by pks016 »

praetor13 wrote: post #156
hyperpl wrote: post #117

Would anyone recommend this for purely retro emulation via retroarch? I currently have an Anbernic RG353M which is nice but I'd prefer to have a fully customizable device that is developer friendly. Can anyone speak to the ergonomics of the dpad and buttons for unforgiving games like some fighting games and platformers? I also suspect the size and weight might prove prohibitive for portability compared to a much smal…

I have a Deck and an RG351V for comparison. The Deck ergos are fine but it's noticeably larger than a Switch which is already too big to just slip in a pocket like the Anbernic. I love the flexibility of being able to play PC and it can run up to lighter PS3 games which is way beyond the RG351 but I would probably want something smaller like an Ayn Odin for purely retro gaming.

You should watch the video from RetroGameCorps, if not already.

Re: Steam Deck: First Anniversary

#250

Post by danShumway »

friendzis wrote: post #240
ushtaritk421 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam deck is an extension of the already existing PC gaming market. I suspect that almost all Steam Deck owners already have a PC they game on. Steam Deck just makes it so those PC gamers will care if a game runs well on Linux. The point isn’t to take over the console market but to defend the PC gaming market from console exclusivity and Steam itself from e.g. Microsoft Store

I think while Steam Deck is an extension of PC gaming market, but more specifically an extension of this market to wannabe casual PC gamers. There is just nothing out there that beats mouse and keyboard for more competitive sessions of dota, csgo, starcraft. For a very long time a €1000/$1000 nominal would buy a rather capable PC gaming rig. Then cryptocoins happened and suddenly it was 1k for graphics card alone. I…

> here is just nothing out there that beats mouse and keyboard for more competitive sessions of dota, csgo, starcraft.

I'm not sure that it's close enough for truly competitive play, but look into flick stick and gyro mouse. For first person games it's good enough that I've been able to hop online in a couple of older first person shooters without aim assist and get roughly (or at least close to) the same performance I would get from a mouse today. It's certainly good enough for the vast majority of single-player campaigns to the point where you wouldn't be missing much if anything by not using a mouse.

Gryo mouse isn't quite as good, it's fine for menus and point-and-click games, but falls down a bit more for stuff like RTS games. I've been trying to figure out control schemes to make it perform better for faster movements without losing precision. It's comfortable enough to use as a general mouse, but I don't think I could use it competitively in an RTS (although I do think I could probably get through a single-player campaign).

I'm mildly hopeful that those control schemes will get better in the future, but even today as someone who pretty much only ever played PC games with a mouse, it's switched me from thinking of the Steam Deck as a primarily 2D/3D/platformer device where I could maybe pick up an FPS if it had really good aim assist, into a device where I wouldn't hesitate to load up pretty much any FPS on it without aim assist. I'm not getting 100% of the performance I used to get with a mouse in older high-precision aiming games like Sauerbraten, but I'm not sure how much of that is that I'm generally out of practice using a sniper rifle and that I haven't put hundreds of hours into practicing with gyro controls. I am still getting kills in those games.

Gyro controls have a couple of issues to work out, mainly stability when you're trying to hold the cursor still, but there's potential there to get (very close to) mouse-like precision for the majority of players who aren't investing hundreds of hours into getting competitive -- especially if games start to take advantage of them natively instead of forcing players to hack them together with mouse emulation.

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