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U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#241

Post by kuhewa »

jfengel wrote: post #53
cashsterling wrote: post #37

As others mentioned, this is not a new finding. There is a lot of academic and industrial/economic analysis on this subject. Ethanol from corn was never a good idea economically for anyone other than corn farmers. It is also bad environmentally and places additional competitive demand on our food supply (choice and competition between corn going into food or fuel supply). Similar analysis has been done on other crop…

Corn farmers from Iowa. Where they hold the first caucus of the interminable election season. No American politician or political party can afford to offend corn farmers. We should count ourselves lucky that our gasoline is only 10% corn.

Is there any particular reason why another state hasn't snubbed Iowa yet and moved their caucus/primary up? Granted, it would cause a chain reaction but...

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#242

Post by kuhewa »

Name_Chawps wrote: post #183
dragonwriter wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2024 changes, inasmuch as they are about specific elections and not the general long-term arc of the party, are about 2028 more than 2024. No one is expecting a significantly contested nominating contest when the party has an incumbent President seeking reelection.

The prediction markets on PredictIt have the Democrats winning at 52 cents, and the Republicans at 50 cents. You should expect the election to be quite close.

A lot can happen in 600 days

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#243

Post by BenjiWiebe »

mgkimsal wrote: post #163
Scoundreller wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then do you fill up with E0 or E10 so you can fill up less frequently?

Last... year or so I've been getting E85 when possible/convenient, and defaulting to regular 87 octane when E85 isn't available. Those tend to be the only reliably available options - haven't seen E10 around here. Last 6 months have been about 80% E85 and 20% 87 regular.

In the US anyways, E10 is the regular gas. E0 (ethanol-free) is usually marked as being ethanol-free.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#244

Post by G_z9 »

This argument is the same as people who said electric cars are worse for global warming because they are powered by coal plants and take more energy to produce. Completely invalid! If there is a cheaper and easier-to-scale system of converting carbon dioxide in the air into hydrocarbon fuel, then I’m all ears.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#245

Post by throw_away1525 »

dragontamer wrote: post #199

Of course its Dr. Lark again. He's been contradicting USDA for years. There's something like 12+ PH.ds who are working in this field and create papers consistently. 11 of them agree, and then Dr. Lark comes out and disagrees. Every couple of years, Dr. Lark comes out with a new set of studies that contradicts everyone else. And then the news organizations / hacker news around here focuses on what Dr. Lark says rather…

Honest questions from a totally ignorant cynic:

Who is funding who here? Is Dr. Lark being funded by the fossil fuel industry? Are the 11 other scientists being funded by 'big corn' or the USDA itself? Does the USDA/'big corn' have a revolving door situation where the USDA scientists have come from and maintain ties to industry?

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#246

Post by natch »

Laaas wrote: post #226
hammock wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More energy in the form of diesel and fossil fuel derived fertilizer went into corn ethanol than you get out in usable fuel

This feels like the arguments against electric cars saying the electricity is generated by fossil fuels anyway.

I’m not saying that you specifically need to hear this, but for anyone reading and for the record, electric vehicles pollute less than gasoline cars even when considering the pollution at the source of power generation, and even if that source power plant is the worst kind, one burning coal.

As for pollution during manufacturing, EVs cause more, but then they break even in pollution terms in comparison to gasoline vehicles after less than three years, and are a net environment win each year after that.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#247

Post by ttyprintk »

dragontamer wrote: post #199

Of course its Dr. Lark again. He's been contradicting USDA for years. There's something like 12+ PH.ds who are working in this field and create papers consistently. 11 of them agree, and then Dr. Lark comes out and disagrees. Every couple of years, Dr. Lark comes out with a new set of studies that contradicts everyone else. And then the news organizations / hacker news around here focuses on what Dr. Lark says rather…

At the end of last year, Ars Technica picked up this piece on the researchers you describe:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33134963

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#248

Post by ttyprintk »

nerdo wrote: post #34

Still better for the climate than burning the corn after harvesting it: https://www.farmcollector.com/farm-life/u-s-farmers-during-g...

I wonder about that. Let’s take wood pellets, the largest market of which being converted coal-fired plants in Britain and Germany.

Texas and North Carolina produce them for export. Under perfect conditions, waste sawdust becomes pellets but it’s understood in those states that old-growth timber is used.

Shelled corn burns hotter than wood, and biomass pellet stoves make up a marginal part of the domestic heating market. For export, where heating and power generation are disrupted by war, shipping that corn seems a good transitional step without the harm associated with somehow discovering new sources of wood pellets.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#249

Post by ttyprintk »

uoaei wrote: post #31
l33t233372 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the post was saying that it doesn’t require us to take carbon out from deep within earth and put it into the atmosphere.

It's an irrelevant point. Carbon emissions include logistics and manufacturing operations.

Maybe not specifically addressed in this article, but those researchers also look at CO2 emissions from simply disturbing the land and converting grassland for farming.

In Brazil, burning rainforest for ag use looks very bad abroad. Should be similar on the American prairie.

Re: U.S. corn-based ethanol worse for the climate than gasoline, study finds

#250

Post by ttyprintk »

Sharlin wrote: post #63
titaniumtown wrote: post #38

Is there other crops that can be turned into ethanol that would be beneficial for the environment? Can't seem to find information on that.

Sure. As far as I know, corn is only used in the US, for fairly obvious reasons. Where I'm from it's made from carb-rich waste and sidestreams from various sources. Of course, the yields do pale in comparison to the corn megaindustry of the US, which produces more fuel ethanol than the rest of the world combined. Sugar cane is good, and used quite successfully in Brazil, but of course only grows in sub/tropical clima…

Some numbers: 26% of the worlds ethanol is grown in Brazil and becomes E22.
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