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Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

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Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#241

Post by lightbendover »

rullelito wrote: post #104
benjismith wrote: post #83

I must be one of the very very few software engineers that would prefer to RTO. (I'm not at Amazon, btw). I do enjoy the flexibility of being able to occasionally work from home. But I miss the bustling office culture, going out to lunch with coworkers, forming friendships with people from the office who don't necessarily work in the same department/team. Most days, I go into town and work from a WeWork (because it's…

What do you think of having it completely voluntary to RTO?

You mean like it is now?

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#242

Post by marcosdumay »

caoilte wrote: post #114
brandon272 wrote: post #54

No one knows what the future holds, but as the dust settles on WFH, I think that FAANG will double down on in-office and use their leverage as desirable large market cap companies with lucrative total comp packages to selectively seek out and retain those who are willing to agree to an in-office or hybrid work environment. They have identified in-person collaboration as a key competitive advantage going forward, want…

The FAANG key competitive advantage is cartel/monopoly status. Getting employees into the office is just middle management ego stroking, it won't actually help them. The degree to which they maintain market dominance over the next 5-10 years will depend on how well they time buying out startups which threaten their dominance (and which will no doubt be built by more productive WFH employees).

OH, but if employees competence is a large bottleneck for them to maintain that cartel/monopoly position. If they keep messing up with their people, not even buying all the correct startups will suffice.

We may be just witnessing the beginning of their end.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#243

Post by toomuchtodo »

kcplate wrote: post #237
theonlybutlet wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is true. Employees are the ones ultimately doing the work and know what value they add. As they see it, they'd have to make outsized sacrifices to return to the office. Businesses have not provided any compelling reason to come back to the office, the actual workers doing the work know how little value it adds to their own stand-alone job. Raising the subject of maintaining remote work rather than pursui…

Employees often have a pretty inflated understanding of how much value they truly provide an organization. Your only slightly more valuable than your replacement sitting in the wings, and only then it’s for a relatively short period of time. Employees need to be providing the compelling reason to the company about why WFH is better.

If you want to make the case that workers have no power, and they’re always a replaceable cog, then certainly the only course of action is for them to pursue obtaining power under the protection of the federal government and the NLRB.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#244

Post by elil17 »

lightbendover wrote: post #238
elil17 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no case to be made in the US unless the constructive dismissal was discriminatory in nature. It is legal to get people to quit by making working conditions worse, as long as you don't break any employment laws by doing so. Say that I want you some of my employees to quit. I say you are only allowed to have meetings while doing handstands, but I provide reasonable accommodation for disabled people who can't d…

Of course it’s discriminatory based on age, familial status, and disabilities. There’s data, just wait.

Unfortunately US courts have not been very receptive to disparate impact claims recently

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#245

Post by roflyear »

benjismith wrote: post #83

I must be one of the very very few software engineers that would prefer to RTO. (I'm not at Amazon, btw). I do enjoy the flexibility of being able to occasionally work from home. But I miss the bustling office culture, going out to lunch with coworkers, forming friendships with people from the office who don't necessarily work in the same department/team. Most days, I go into town and work from a WeWork (because it's…

Mmm I like interacting with people but hate being forced to every day. But I was remote long before COVID.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#246

Post by kcplate »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #243
kcplate wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees often have a pretty inflated understanding of how much value they truly provide an organization. Your only slightly more valuable than your replacement sitting in the wings, and only then it’s for a relatively short period of time. Employees need to be providing the compelling reason to the company about why WFH is better.

If you want to make the case that workers have no power, and they’re always a replaceable cog, then certainly the only course of action is for them to pursue obtaining power under the protection of the federal government and the NLRB.

Wxactly where did I say that they had no power? I was speaking about an individuals perception of their value being greater than it actually is, especially if the point of contention is not a point of contention for other waiting candidates that can do their job.

However, to your point—even a union has convince an employer why WFH is in the employer’s best interest to get the benefit.

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#248

Post by slenk »

betaby wrote: post #240
slenk wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick google search shows that median income seems well above 100k https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/seattle-media... https://www.seattle.gov/documents/Departments/Housing/Proper... https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/seattlecitywash...

Household slightly above, however levels.fyi is about individual compensation.

Not everyone is an individual. Does that take into account a family that they might be supporting?

I am not the only one that thinks Seattle is expensive - not sure why you are so adamant it is not.

https://www.quickenloans.com/learn/most-expensive-cities-in-...

https://www.kiplinger.com/real-estate/605051/most-expensive-...

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/10-most-expensive-cities-for...

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#249

Post by weeblewobble »

otikik wrote: post #117
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Amazon's case, it might not be theater. Amazon owns around a dozen skyscrapers in downtown Seattle. Amazon has a massive number of employees in downtown Seattle, and whether those people are downtown or not makes a significant difference to the real estate values in downtown Seattle. Making their employees come into the office may in fact mean a significant financial reward to Amazon, but not because the employees…

Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store

It’s a good song but I’m struggling to see how it applies to the topic under discussion. Maybe if Amazon was paying their workers in Amazon gift cards I could see it.

Or maybe if Amazon owned apartments that they rented out to their employees? Afaik that’s not the case. GP said they own “skyscrapers” but really they own their own office buildings which are mostly like 4-10 stories tall and do not include apartments

Re: Amazon employees push CEO Andy Jassy to drop return-to-office mandate

#250

Post by weeblewobble »

CobrastanJorji wrote: post #106
shmatt wrote: post #28

The thing is, this becomes theater of working. Imagine commuting to the office 60-90 minutes each direction just to sit in a stuffy room and zoom Want to talk collaboration and productivity? Let's see if a company bans zoom for office days (but none will) And im not even going to start on the complete waste of time of people in an open space talking non stop about their fantasy football draft. I haven't heard those w…

In Amazon's case, it might not be theater. Amazon owns around a dozen skyscrapers in downtown Seattle. Amazon has a massive number of employees in downtown Seattle, and whether those people are downtown or not makes a significant difference to the real estate values in downtown Seattle. Making their employees come into the office may in fact mean a significant financial reward to Amazon, but not because the employees…

Fwiw I work right by the spheres and walk by multiple times a day and things are generally bustling. Restaurants and food trucks have lines at lunch time, buses are crowded, etc. and there’s been a clear trend over the past year. Try grabbing a salad at evergreens at 12:30 on a weekday if you don’t believe me.

So imo this theory doesn’t pass the smell test.

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