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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#241

Post by robin_reala »

runako wrote: post #62
david-gpu wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bike sharing services are great in those situations. You don't even need to carry your bike in the train. There is also public transit like trams and buses.

Gentle reminder that a significant portion of society is not able to carry out trips on bikes due to infirmity, disability, or needing to convey someone who cannot bike (e.g. small children).

If you need to convey kids then you buy a bike that conveys kids easily. Copenhagen is full of these sort of box bikes[1] (well, trikes I guess) that at their larger side will happily fit three to four small children.

[1] https://christianiabikesamerica.com/collections/all-models

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#242

Post by afiori »

kensai wrote: post #27

I really wished this demonisation of the car stopped. Modern cars are way more climate friendly than merely 10-20 years ago and many climate-conscious persons do pool to commute. But we need to understand. There are cases where the car is a must. Unavoidable. Imagine having toddlers, having to do heavy groceries, and living in a place with difficult landscape or challenging weather. Imagine having a neurological dise…

"When you are privileged equality feels like oppression"

Cars have reasons to exists and a no-car future is neither likely nor desirable; but today they are overused as an inefficient but easy solution.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#243

Post by wkat4242 »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

Me too. I hate the stress of driving. The busy traffic, all the mistakes you can make and be fined for, the hurry of some people. Expensive everything.

I live in a city now with amazing public transport and I don't miss my car at all.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#245

Post by bluGill »

hgomersall wrote: post #173
Tade0 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps because real estate/rent is simply too expensive anywhere closer.

Whenever I've heard people make that argument, what they actually mean is "The huge house I want to live in I can afford if I spend an hour a day in the car, oh and people that live in the cities should not make it harder for me to pursue such a path by restricting car usage. Externalities be damned, won't someone think of my being unable to afford a 5 bedroom house with a big garden in the city".

Humans have always been that way. Adam Smith observed in his "wealth of the nations" that once someone has enough to eat and other basics, increases in income are mostly used to make their house better (mostly meaning larger). If your plan for bettering the world doesn't account for this, then you have lost.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#246

Post by ghaff »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I think a lot of younger people who choose to live in a city, especially new grads, are essentially continuing their college experience. A lot of friends probably live in the city too. They can often bum transportation/do joint activities from friends who do own cars and are mostly fine with minimizing out of city activities that require a car.

They also restrict themselves to jobs they can easily get to. Which in tech was basically impossible in, say, Boston 25 years ago.

A friend of mine made the observation that people mostly just don't do optional activities if they're hard or expensive to do. So if you live carless in a city with decent public transit, you mostly restrict your recreational activities and people you get together with to what's convenient and tend not to do things that require renting a car on a Friday night and returning it Sunday or Monday.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#247

Post by joemazerino »

I personally do not miss using transit on a daily basis. It was cheap, yes, but feeling like a packed sardine while being harassed by mentally ill people did not make up for the cost savings.

My car isn't even expensive. Go buy a Toyota or Honda. Hybrid? Even better. I'd happily pay a bit more monthly to be in comfort than to save a buck.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#248

Post by vidarh »

overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I'm 47, and have never bothered getting a drivers license because I've always lived places where the combination of public transport with fallback to taxis has been good enough. Add on Uber and equivalent, and my need for cars is lower than ever.

If I'd lived somewhere a car was needed, I'd have learned. It's not an ideological opposition to cars by any means. Occasionally I consider getting a drivers license, and then forget about it, because it's just never felt worth the hassle.

Like you I've just never felt that emotional association with freedom from a car. I think an essential aspect of that was growing up somewhere where I felt I had the same options without one.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#249

Post by jononomo »

bluGill wrote: post #224
jononomo wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does São Paulo have more cars than people even if you include children? Surely there must also be an underclass of very poor or homeless people who do not own cars. What accounts for the fact that there are more cars than people? Is it common for a household of four (mother, father, son, daughter) to own five or six cars?

I don't know Brazil, but based on what I know of the US I wouldn't be surprised. A couple will often own 3 cars, 2 daily drivers and one for some other odd task (truck, or the sports car) that is used as a backup. It will be one car per kid of driving age, though most kids are not old enough to drive. Then there are work cars, which for tax/legal reasons can't be used for personal trips so those who have them will al…

Ok, but in the US there are forty five million fewer registered vehicles than there are people, even after accounting for all the factors you listed.

There are 286 million registered vehicles for a population of 331 million people.

And the US is the wealthiest nation in the world.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#250

Post by sokoloff »

maxsilver wrote: post #227
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

> but even then, I don't get the emotional association of freedom that previous generations did. I don't know what's different, although I have some guesses. Money, I'm sure, but there's something that's nagging me about it. I'd argue it's a combination of money and aging infrastructure. Money is the big one (cars used to be a lot cheaper, both to buy and to maintain. Incomes for most used to be much higher). Infrast…

> (cars used to be a lot cheaper, both to buy and to maintain. Incomes for most used to be much higher)

Cars have inflated at a rate significantly lower than general inflation (typically by about half as much), meaning they've gotten cheaper in real terms. They've also gotten much safer, more fuel efficient, reliable, lower-maintenance, and long-lived.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/New-cars/price-inflation/1980-...

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