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GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

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Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#241

Post by jacquesm »

mk89 wrote: post #217
jacquesm wrote: post #194

Teams is so horrific we banned it. If you force us to use teams you'll have to find another supplier. Seriously, it is incomprehensible that Microsoft would ship something so utterly broken. I know they don't have a reputation for writing good software but Teams is on another level, and I don't mean that in a positive way. I've really tried to get it to work but it is so messed up that I don't think it can be done. M…

What's the issue with zoom? I think it's one of the best software I have on my machine. It never ever stopped working since I have it installed, not even in meetings/webinars with 1000+ people. And the integration with Slack is really convenient, you can start a meeting in seconds anywhere you are.

On what operating system?

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#242

Post by wvenable »

kdtsh wrote: post #235
wvenable wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird -- I use Teams all the time and I've never had a serious problem with it. It's not the greatest software ever made but it's certainly functional. It's definitely getting a lot of work done to it.

Likewise, I don’t particularly like it but it’s fine. My biggest gripe is nonexistent official Linux support - I hate having to use a package maintained by one person on GitHub to get a desktop application for Linux, when this application is so critical for my day to day. But besides that it works fine.

I use Teams in Chrome a lot. Given that it's an electron app, I'm not sure it matters that much that it's "native" vs. "web app".

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#243

Post by btilly »

samiru wrote: post #196
revscat wrote: post #147

To everyone at GitHub: I’m so sorry. I don’t mean this in a clever way, either. Teams is awful and it will make your lives worse to one degree or another.

I wonder if those who complain about Teams actually use it. They might not. My company forces us to use Google Chat. I would take Teams any day.

On what basis do you insinuate that other people's dislike is based on ignorance? That's a shallow dismissal of the kind that https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html asks us not to do.

Most of the time people's dislike is based on past bad experiences. If you think that those experiences may be out of date, indicate what has improved. If you like one product better than another, say why.

Personally I have 25 years of bad experiences with Microsoft products breaking quoted code through inserting smart quotes, long dashes, and the like. It is beyond absurd to me that Teams tries to be a collaboration tool for teams which include programmers, and STILL gets this wrong. Other tools like Slack don't make this mistake. And decades of Microsoft's continuing this behavior makes me doubt that they will ever see this as something to change. They are too wedded to trying to be clever about formatting.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#244

Post by phpisthebest »

xattt wrote: post #219
wvenable wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird -- I use Teams all the time and I've never had a serious problem with it. It's not the greatest software ever made but it's certainly functional. It's definitely getting a lot of work done to it.

Your definition of broken is likely different than the GP.

Pretty sure the GP definition of broke is not really what broke means. I know it is all the rage these days to just redefine terms to make them often mean the exact opposite of what the rest of the planet understands them to mean

But we have to have shared definitions for words or communications just breaks down

It can not be "your definition of broke is different from mine" if that is the case then language is just noise and we need to stop communicating

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#245

Post by MaKey »

kdtsh wrote: post #235
wvenable wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird -- I use Teams all the time and I've never had a serious problem with it. It's not the greatest software ever made but it's certainly functional. It's definitely getting a lot of work done to it.

Likewise, I don’t particularly like it but it’s fine. My biggest gripe is nonexistent official Linux support - I hate having to use a package maintained by one person on GitHub to get a desktop application for Linux, when this application is so critical for my day to day. But besides that it works fine.

The Linux app doesn't even support screen sharing when you're using Wayland. I was forced to try out the browser based variant (meeting link opened the web variant instantly instead of giving me the choice to use the app instead) and can now finally share my screen (even single windows!). Also I can now use backgrounds, which the app didn't support.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#246

Post by xmodem »

jacquesm wrote: post #194

Teams is so horrific we banned it. If you force us to use teams you'll have to find another supplier. Seriously, it is incomprehensible that Microsoft would ship something so utterly broken. I know they don't have a reputation for writing good software but Teams is on another level, and I don't mean that in a positive way. I've really tried to get it to work but it is so messed up that I don't think it can be done. M…

My team had a meeting with Github sales and product a few weeks back. After I secured a booking of the special Teams-capable meeting room and arrived 10 minutes early to make sure everything was set up in time, we spent the first 10 minutes of the 30 minute meeting with 2 people from Github unable to join. At that point I generated a Google meet link, put it in the email thread and we were up and running a minute later.

I've found Meet to just work about 98% of the time. My biggest complaint is the framerate. I'm not sure what it actually is but it feels like 15fps.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#247

Post by aaron_m04 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #89
kimbernator wrote: post #72

How is it possible that Teams is still such a poor product? I really didn't like it when my job switched like 6 years ago, and I don't recall ever feeling that it improved in any meaningful way. I switched jobs to one using Slack and it's not perfect but it is a lot better. It's almost a meme at this point. In the presence of other clients that have gotten it "right" (or at least more "right" than teams) like Slack,…

They are still using Slack. This is for video conferencing only. I've heard that with regards to video conferencing, it's competitive with zoom.

That makes a huge difference. It's worth editing the title to add "for video conferencing".

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#248

Post by guhidalg »

kypro wrote: post #185
ralmidani wrote: post #97

I’m extremely picky - as long as my livelihood is not threatened and I actually have options. For me, being forced to use Windows, Teams, Skype, Java/Spring, or Jira (among others) would be a dealbreaker (again, unless that job might be among the few available to help me feed my family). I spent some time learning in the structured environment of a large company, which I recommend everyone do for a first and/or secon…

It's interesting you say this. I've always felt my flexibility was a strength and quite enjoy being asked to use new tools and software. To be honest I tend to look quite poorly on people unwilling to provide flexibility on the tools they work with. In my experience it can be quite disruptive when you have one highly opinionated team member who will refuse to work with a new tool because of a personal preference. I g…

Before we lose ourselves in abstract generalities that don't mean anything, let's focus on the thread: communication applications.

If you're comfortable working at a place that mandates Teams because it makes management's life easier, then you shouldn't have any problem adapting to new tools. You also shouldn't expect management to tolerate risky ventures; they have already signaled they do not tolerate non-compliant communication software. Therefore, you shouldn't have any problem doing the mediocre work that management expects out of you. That's ok! We all need to know where we stand in the risk/reward spectrum and using sub-optimal tools is a signal that you're operating in a low-risk environment.

However if you are operating in a high-risk environment, like a startup, then you should be opinionated about everything because every decision influences your chances of success or failure. Using Teams instead of Slack may prevent you from hiring the talent that recognizes the signals of mediocrity.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#249

Post by wvenable »

dragonwriter wrote: post #238
wvenable wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so weird -- I use Teams all the time and I've never had a serious problem with it. It's not the greatest software ever made but it's certainly functional. It's definitely getting a lot of work done to it.

Teams is minimally usable, but its pretty much worst-in-class for…everything it does. It’s two compelling selling points seem to be (1) that “nobody every got fired for buying IBM” now applies to Microsoft more than IBM, and (2) moreover, users don’t actually buy Teams qua Teams, they get a Microsoft 365 subscriptions for some of the things where Microsoft has not-worst-in-class solutions, and Teams comes along for t…

What does it mean to be worst-in-class for text chat or video conferencing. Video conferences look and sound great. Text chat is text chat. What am I missing here that's so awful?

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#250

Post by btilly »

gcapu wrote: post #220
samiru wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if those who complain about Teams actually use it. They might not. My company forces us to use Google Chat. I would take Teams any day.

I use it and I would be happy if Teams was able to do basic copy/paste. When you copy, it copies things you didn’t select and doesn’t copy some things you selected. When pasting, it auto-formats the text and does a terrible job at it. It’s a disaster. I hope the Teams team is forced to use Teams.

Sadly they probably are forced to use Teams.

But all of the product and prioritization decisions are made by product managers who view this as intended behavior and not a bug. And they are used to dismissing programmer concerns on this. Because most users don't care about it.

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