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Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

pta.gov.pk

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Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#241

Post by ddevault »

_-david-_ wrote: post #157
ddevault wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The death penalty is abhorrent and indefensible, and religious freedom and the right to free expression are both included in the universal declaration of human rights, to which Pakistan is a signatory.

>The death penalty is abhorrent and indefensible Believe it or not, but some places don't have the resources to hold people in jail for decades. If there was a murderer and the place had no way to actually keep the murderer away from the general population, what would you recommend? Just ask the murderer to not murder again?

The problem is that you cannot ascertain with certainty that someone is, in fact, a murderer. Countries with the death penalty will always execute innocent people. Roughly 5% of convicted persons are estimated to be innocent, and an execution makes the possibility of appeal or exoneration moot. At least 190 people in the United States have been sentenced to death and were later found to be innocent.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#242

Post by blackhaz »

robertlagrant wrote: post #211
babypuncher wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One modern alternative is "no religion", which is better than any religion that enforces this kind of crap. This is the position any modern governing entity should take. I don't have a problem with religion in principle, only when it is used as justification to mistreat others, as is happening here. At that point any spiritual benefits it offers adherents are outweighed by the societal harm it causes. There are good…

It's not automatically good. One of the most atheist governments was Soviet Russia, with the attendant horrifying death toll on its population.

Czech Republic is one of the most atheist countries in the world (76% are irreligious). Doing fine.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#243

Post by blackhaz »

hulitu wrote: post #222
blackhaz wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have a very "romantic" view about " modern times". You see, a lot of people held at Guantanamo were muslims.

I am sure you will find many, many dark places in the Muslim world as well. Spreading religion won't get rid of Guantanamos.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#244

Post by qwerty456127 »

DharmaPolice wrote: post #60
qwerty456127 wrote: post #24

I can hardly imagine an idea more ridiculous than "blasphemy". The G-d is not a psychologically immature human being easy to offend. Nothing a human might possibly say can change the state of G-d from perfect harmony to anything else.

That doesn't match the Abrahamic conception of God though which is the point here. In fact, that God is almost the opposite of what you've described.

If G-d is eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent. How can he logically be different from what I described? He has seen everything imaginable and unimaginable countless times, will see everthing, knows everything to happen in advance, in sub-atomic details. Also knows your whole life which made your character this way so you behave exactly like you do, also all the neurotransmitter fluctuations taking place in you and what causes them inevitably, understands you better than yourself or any psychologist ever could.

Imagine a terribly disabled person, crippled physically and mentally, unable to carry a kilogram for a second or multiply 2x3, traumatised to the point of insanity, striuggling from dementia. Also imagine you are a world-famous olympic athlette with four doctorate degrees in diverse areas. What if the cripple would say an insult about you, would you feel anything but compassion? This is a rough approximation of the difference between any person and the G-d.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#245

Post by qwerty456127 »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #110
qwerty456127 wrote: post #24

I can hardly imagine an idea more ridiculous than "blasphemy". The G-d is not a psychologically immature human being easy to offend. Nothing a human might possibly say can change the state of G-d from perfect harmony to anything else.

Why are you selfcensoring "God"?

I just enjoy writing it this way in accordance with what some bibilical traditions suggest. Sort of OCD/perfectionism. I could come up with many explanations if I had time&mood.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#246

Post by DharmaPolice »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #244
DharmaPolice wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't match the Abrahamic conception of God though which is the point here. In fact, that God is almost the opposite of what you've described.

If G-d is eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent. How can he logically be different from what I described? He has seen everything imaginable and unimaginable countless times, will see everthing, knows everything to happen in advance, in sub-atomic details. Also knows your whole life which made your character this way so you behave exactly like you do, also all the neurotransmitter fluctuations taking place in you and w…

You're still approaching this from a human (and indeed personal) perspective - well, if I was eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent then I would feel a particular way. Who knows how a being might behave?

With your example about being insulted by someone so wretched, I agree - I would feel compassion but that's an emotional response based on my current personality. You do sometimes see very successful people being riled up by minor criticisms from nobodies and you do think "Why on Earth do they care?". Some people are just petty minded and cruel, even when there is no need.

I'm not a believer, but I must say the idea of a God capable of petty cruelties does at least seem to match how the world actually is vs a God who is both omnipotent and all loving.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#247

Post by qwerty456127 »

DharmaPolice wrote: post #246
qwerty456127 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If G-d is eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent. How can he logically be different from what I described? He has seen everything imaginable and unimaginable countless times, will see everthing, knows everything to happen in advance, in sub-atomic details. Also knows your whole life which made your character this way so you behave exactly like you do, also all the neurotransmitter fluctuations taking place in you and w…

You're still approaching this from a human (and indeed personal) perspective - well, if I was eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent then I would feel a particular way. Who knows how a being might behave? With your example about being insulted by someone so wretched, I agree - I would feel compassion but that's an emotional response based on my current personality. You do sometimes see very successful people being riled up…

> You do sometimes see very successful people being riled up by minor criticisms from nobodies and you do think "Why on Earth do they care?". Some people are just petty minded

That's possible because they are just humans. They have basically monkey brains on steroids and didn't have eternity to mature their wisdom.

Any being, no matter how advanced, can happen to find necessary what we would consider evil or unfortunate. But getting insulted and angry is a primitive animal reflex meant to help animals protect their social status among similarly primitive creatures, obviously not an attribute of G-d.

> I would feel compassion but that's an emotional response based on my current personality.

Have you had a chance to observe how does your personality mature? The more you experience, know and understand, the harder it becomes to make you angry, insecure or disbalance you in any other emotional way, isn't it? Who the heck we are to think we can affect G-d?

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#248

Post by cactusplant7374 »

34611 wrote: post #230
computerfriend wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Wikipedia article, edited or altered!? Say it isn't so.

So you'd be okay handing over the wiki article to the pakistani ministry to edit as they see fit? Of course not. The point here isn't about editing or altering, it's about who gets to edit and alter.

This is quite the rabbit hole because many people believe falsehoods that believe they have a right to spread. This is why Musk bought Twitter in the first place.

The reason some conservatives want to regulate social media companies like utilities: 1) these companies have made a lot of money in spite of preventing the spread of fake news 2) all conservative leaning platforms have been rejected by the public.

> Wikipedia is not pro-free speech. They are advocates of "woke" culture and have censored/altered/etc many wikipedia articles. Any wikipedia article that was critical of western "religion" ( wokism, lgbt, zionism, etc ) are removed, edited, altered, etc.

The western religion is capitalism. The things you mention are statistical anomalies. Most of the people complaining probably don't even know any LGBT people because they live relatively insular lives (and even then don't have any conflict with them). It seems strange to get hung up on things that don't effect daily life.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#249

Post by ParrotRaj »

robofanatic wrote: post #188
flipbrad wrote: post #2

"Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) has degraded Wikipedia services in the country on account of not blocking / removing sacrilegious contents. Wikipedia was approached for blocking / removal of the said contents by issuing a notice under applicable law and court order(s). An opportunity of hearing was also provided, however, the platform neither complied by removing the blasphemous content nor appeared befor…

> PTA is committed to ensuring a safe online experience for all Pakistani citizens according to local laws. How would Pakistani citizens be unsafe if that content remains? will there be total chaos? riots? more suicide bombings?

Citizens would read blashpemous material, commit blashpemy and then will be lynched by the crowd

Wish it was a joke but sadly lynching due to alleged blashpemy is a huge issue in pakistan. Recently a Sri Lankan citizen was burned alive with a few hundred witnesses who just watched.

Re: Pakistani gov degrades Wikipedia connections due to blasphemy

#250

Post by BowBun »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #125
BowBun wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love to reference the logical fallacy[1] as though there have been no instances where momentum builds from a series of decisions and cascades in a massive shift. But then again, thinkers like these are happy to comfortably think about the past while many suffer, instead of applying realism towards the future. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

People love to cite the fallacy because it’s one that’s used a lot. Sure, momentum builds. Sometimes. But the fallacy is proclaiming with 100% certainty both that the momentum will build, and the specific way it’s going to roll. We don’t know the future. We can’t claim with certainty that something will happen as a result of another action. Claiming anything otherwise is falling right into the fallacy.

I don't think most people that use it in casual conversation (which isn't logically sound to begin with) are using it in good faith. In my experience, it's used to shut down concerns that people have based on previous experiences or history. It's also usually served with a "Gotcha!" attitude, as if the listener has found some golden ticket to shut down conversation.
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