Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#241

Post by bodomalo » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 8:25 AM UTC

carlosjobim wrote: post #177

capableweb wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the very page you linked: > Dispute fees (also known as chargebacks) will increase from €15 to €20. Due to costs for managing dispute evidence submissions, we'll no longer refund this fee if the customer's bank resolves the dispute in your favor. It used to be that you got the fee refunded if it got resolved in your favor, but after the changes go into effect (10 April 2023), it won't be like that anymore.

Wow! In the language version they're showing me, they write the opposite. Translated from the page: "Changes for disputes Fees for disputes (also known as chargeback or recrediting) will increase from €15 to €20. If the customer's bank resolves the dispute in your favour, the full fee will be refunded." Edit: After doing some more research, it seems that it is only US customers that will lose their dispute fee. If yo…

Hellooooo - they change it in April. Thats what we talk about.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#242

Post by bodomalo » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 8:28 AM UTC

Simple. Add a 5 Cent Payment fee to every STRIPE Payment.

That is still legal. Customers do not like it of course to see different prices. But hey, thats how you have to teach them.

Paypal is better in disputes..but its also more expensive (for me).

The good thing is: In the future I do not have to care about disputes on stripe, I can just upload a paper saying "fuck you all"..I loose my money anyway.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#243

Post by bodomalo » Fri, Feb 10, 2023, 8:31 AM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #4

Some European alternatives you might be able to find/negotiate better fees with: - mollie (Netherlands) - adyen (Netherlands) - Klarna (Sweden) - Paylike (Denmark) - Mangopay (Luxembourg) - Quickpay (Denmark) (added in edit) The ones I've tried of those, have an OK development experience, maybe not as polished as Stripe, but much better than the alternatives that were around before Stripe (huge hassle back then). Ide…

I doubt any of those payment providers mentioned does not take the chargeback fee on a credit-card dispute.

Anyway, they might handle customer-communication with the merchant better.

Stripe offers nothing. If the customer could "contact" the seller, everyhting would work out better.

Just think - you have only 11 CHARS(!!!) to describe your service, thats what the customer sees on his monthyl CC bill. I am unable to describe it to everc customer in 11 chars, so 1 out of 1000 belives it was fraud because people do not remember what they bought online.

Re: Stripe increases fees for EU and UK-based businesses in April

#244

Post by thereisnotry » Sun, Feb 12, 2023, 4:57 PM UTC

smca wrote: post #224

gamblor956 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically, you're saying that your dispute fee costs have increased...but you pass along all those charges to the merchant anyways...so it boils down to: you're just increasing fees because you can under the guise of expenses that aren't your own.

I'm happy to explain this in depth if you'd like clarity (my username at stripe.com) but no, that's incorrect. We're now charged more for dispute submissions. These costs are set solely by the card networks and we'll no longer bear those costs (bringing us inline with the market).

Hi smca - this helps, I was under the impression that Stripe is refunded the fees in scenarios where disputes are won. That seems to have been a misundertanding.

Having said that - I think there was a lot of room for nuance in this rollout, which kinda got shoved up into a one-size-fits-all policy.

I'll give my own business as a reference - I have a 100% chargeback "win" rate; including in cases where Stripe estimated low win success odds. Chargebacks have (so far) come exclusively from bad faith actors.

With this latest iteration - fledgling businesses like mine are massively exposed to competitors making bad-faith bookings and issuing chargebacks against us; which even if we were to successfully defend - would entirely bankrupt us.

Has Stripe explored a mitigation of a scenario such as this?

Following through on the same line of thought - has Stripe considered a more balanced approach where if merchants have a success rate of more than a certain threshold (which by all means can be high) - then they are more "protected" on chargebacks they win? It could be a much better balance in filtering out good vs bad actors on the merchant side.

Potentially also something to pitch to card networks - they will certainly not listen to individual merchants, but if I had to guess - they wouldn't ignore this sort of pitch from Stripe?

And if you were to do so - you would be building loyalty from your "good merchants" by providing a value offering beyond the market; the ones whom are less likely to encounter chargebacks to begin with (and win those they do encounter); since you'll then have a value prop ahead/better than the market. Which just seems like a sound long-game bet.

One person's thoughts etc etc - but the current version of the chargeback fee rollout - while well rationalized, also feels heavy handed and not with the usual finesse/nuance with which I've seen Stripe's usual policy modifications. Thought I'd throw my 2c into the mix.