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Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

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Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#241

Post by [deleted] »

e_i_pi_2 wrote: post #224
Buttons840 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're responding to a concern about society with a suggestion for individuals. It may be good advice for individuals, but do you think most people are going to follow it?

Great response - even if I can buy a pig with bullets it doesn't help anything else. That assumes you can butcher and store the meat. This seems like a kind of bikeshedding argument - the bike shed is built so don't worry about the actual nuclear reactor, you can always just hide in the bike shed. Doesn't matter how well built the bike shed is - you're still surrounded by nuclear fallout

[deleted]

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#242

Post by DennisP »

snotrockets wrote: post #123
ceejayoz wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does it matter whether you're acquainted with the recipient? Because the transfers can't be canceled/reversed, so there's no recourse if the recipient is scamming you.

This isn't true. All bank transfers and reversible. Some easier then other, but none are no-recurse, regardless what a low tier customer service agent insists. It may require more effort, and maybe someone above their pay grade, but it is possible. And Zelle itself, like all electronic bank transfers in the US, is subject to regulation E, which puts the responsibility for unauthorized transfers on the banks (minus $5…

Wire transfers aren't reversible if you're not quick enough to do it before the money transfers out of the country. Home purchases and business wires have both seen over a billion dollars in wire fraud annually, just in the US.

https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/mortgage-wire-fraud

https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesbusinesscouncil/2022/08/3...

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#243

Post by anonporridge »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #98
notch656c wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough money in the bank to buy groceries you have enough money to take out of the bank and put in your mattress for groceries. Also HN will probably get upset for me saying this but a few grams of gold or silver or other goods easily tradeable like whiskey or ammo never hurt anybody and might buy you a pig to slaughter or something.

In the event that you are trading gold and silver and ammo, your first problem will be holding onto your gold and ammo in the first place. Which means if you are prepping for this scenario, your first order of business is to be part of a tribe willing and able to defend you.

This is why I believe leadership in urban environments would quickly turn over to existing city gangs in a collapse scenario. Maybe the police would be one gang that controls a fraction of the city.

Urban gangs already have the required tribal associations, intimate understanding of the terrain and resources therein, and the propensity to commit violence that would be required to take control.

Any of us good citizens who keep our heads down, go to work, avoid violence at all costs, and individually prep for a collapse without building existing association to a coherent tribe will end up quickly dead or subservient to these existing tribes.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#244

Post by cobertos »

sschueller wrote: post #200
bluedino wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why overdraft hasn't been outlawed. It's a felony to write a check that you don't have the funds for. Oh, you mean for the bank.

Do checks still exist in the US? Edit: Here in Europe no one uses checks since I can remember (since the 80s?). In Switzerland lots of cash and direct bank transfers.

Yeah, I just got paid with one the other week. It was the easiest way to take money when the person has no tech savvy (and can't figure out how to send an ACH)

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#245

Post by snotrockets »

ceejayoz wrote: post #183
snotrockets wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't true. All bank transfers and reversible. Some easier then other, but none are no-recurse, regardless what a low tier customer service agent insists. It may require more effort, and maybe someone above their pay grade, but it is possible. And Zelle itself, like all electronic bank transfers in the US, is subject to regulation E, which puts the responsibility for unauthorized transfers on the banks (minus $5…

Sending money to a scammer tends to be an authorized transfer; you made it yourself, intentionally. The Zelle page you said itself states "Because you authorized the payment, you may not be able to get your money back." I would not hang my hat on a Regulation E complaint in this scenario.

Zelle can write that water are dry, it will not make it so. The customer intended to authorize a non-scammy transfer, but was scammed into authorizing himself into a fraud. As such, regulation E holds.

And if there's something bank fears is someone reminding their regulator the bank may not be following regulation to the letter.

It has been made very clear that regulation E is meant to held banks responsible for misuse of electronic services. For example, if you are coerced to draw money out of an ATM, regulation E holds, even as you authorized the withdrawal with your card and PIN code (it also makes perfect sense: there's assumption the same wouldn't be as easy had you had to use a teller for that withdrawal).

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#246

Post by colechristensen »

ars wrote: post #94
colechristensen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I didn’t even notice the covid paper products shortage on accounts of having every day life insurance in the form of a Costco membership and having bought toilet paper some months before. Buying in bulk isn’t even a cost, the cost of capital sitting idle in the form of a shelf of stuff I won’t need for a long time is more than made up for with the volume discount. Not only are the bulk beans a tiny fraction of t…

This only works if you don't live in a dense city. People in cities simply don't have space to store (many) bulk purchases, and the stores near them (i.e. that don't need a car) don't sell things in bulk (transporting bulk items by public transport is not feasible, and it's too expensive by Uber). When I visit friends who live in dense cities they are very excited that I have a car, and often ask me to take them to m…

I live in a downtown highrise, have a car. It works with a shelf for added storage which takes up 5 or 6 sq ft. Having the space for, say, a chest freezer, would up my game a lot but I can do plenty of bulk purchases with what I have.

The lack of space is annoying though still.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#247

Post by ribosometronome »

notyourwork wrote: post #221
SoftTalker wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let someone into your house to use the bathroom it's not OK that they rifle through your dresser drawers and take any cash that they find. People "hand someone their credit card" every day at restaurants. That doesn't mean that they are waiving fraud protections.

It’s also not the toilet companies job to resolve that is it?

What 'toilet company' has an analogous service relationship like a bank does to their customer and would be in a position to resolve it?

In the other example they gave, you would expect the credit card company to work with you to resolve the fraud. Similarly, if a stolen vehicle gets tickets, you don't expect to have to pay them and then try to collect from the thief.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#248

Post by ceejayoz »

snotrockets wrote: post #238
ceejayoz wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't matter what banks accept; they are required to by the regulator. Regulation E ( https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/100... ): "'Unauthorized electronic fund transfer' means an electronic fund transfer from a consumer's account initiated by a person other than the consumer without actual authority to initiate the transfer and from which the consumer receives no benefit." How is "I wil…

Competent (non-software) professionals would read the initiation as the intent, also see comment 4 there, suggesting the mindset of the regulator. As a reminder, regulations are always subject to the interpereation of the regulator, which, as history shows in the case of regulation E, tends to side with the consumers. There's a deeper story here though: * Banks are given a monopoly to almost literally print money. We…

The expandable "Official interpretation of 2(m) Unauthorized Electronic Fund Transfer" section makes it pretty clear what sort of things they consider to be covered under the regulation. If they thought it covered scams, it's highly likely they'd say so there.

Elizabeth Warren's recent investigation brought this up as an issue, as well. I think regulation should cover the scam use case, but it's pretty clear to me it currently doesn't.

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#249

Post by idontpost »

xattt wrote: post #233
browningstreet wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work for a bank in the US, and not one of the names you hear associated with scandals all the time. The level of redundancy and HA built into our everything is why our jobs are so boring and slow. We also use a core banking platform that lots of other banks use and it's properly engineered for the kind of enterprise performance we'd all expect. There are certainly problems in banking, but the FDIC protections are a…

I’ll be the 10th man and add to the nihilism. Consumer protections are there not for the consumer, but to create some sort of artificial social stability through recourse and take the wind out of any social uprising.

[dead]

Re: Bank of America has lost Zelle transfers for many customers

#250

Post by europeanguy »

steelframe wrote: post #101
gr4yb34rd wrote: post #8

praise that brave reddit moderator for rushing in there to lock down the thread and remove any content that might hurt BoA's feelings.

Amateur moderation is awful and often exploitative. I moderated a sub for about a year. At the time I felt like I was furthering a worthy cause. In retrospect I now feel like a schmuck who basically gave free labor to a company, making the platform more attractive to advertisers. I don't expect the hours I spent combing through troll posts had any measurable impact on the "cause" that sub was nominally furthering. In…

> In retrospect I now feel like a schmuck who basically gave free labor to a company

You mean, like you're doing right now? Comments on HN can't be deleted after an hour because they add value to HN forever. And by being here you're adding value to them. Basically free labor.

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