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Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

blogs.microsoft.com

241–250 of 284 posts

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HP did this back in the 80s also, we were working 9 of 10 days to avoid layoffs

The Ontario government did something like this during the recession in the 80s. There were "Rae Days" a dozen forced unpaid days off for the public service to both save money and jobs, named after the premier of the time, Bob Rae. Rae Days were reviled and helped end the viability of Rae's party the Ontario NDP. The thing is... I don't get it? Would people have rather had mass layoffs? Rae 100% did the right thing he…

He was a good interim leader - would have done better than Trudeau IMO.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#242
post #14

Families will get torn apart, people with health issues will be on their own, immigrants will get booted. C-suite will get a raise from the stock price bump. Congrats on our system.

People with health issues should still be able to purchase their existing insurance through COBRA, and, once that expires, through the public exchanges that are guaranteed to cover their existing condition. Thanks ACA.

When you enroll in COBRA, you are responsible for paying both the employer's contribution and your own contribution. This can amount to thousands of dollars per month. It may be more cost-effective to consider state insurance options or those available on healthcare.gov. I took COBRA in the past and I know about this.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#243
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, you're always able to buy a bad health insurance plan. But you're also able to buy a good health insurance plan, If one exists , and as I stated in the original post, in many states, even the best plans available on the marketplace are quite terrible. And that's a problem that's actually gotten worse in recent years, not better, as plans have left the exchange (and providers have dropped marketplace plans from…

Do you have any evidence that the plans aren't sufficient? Others in the thread have mentioned they have gotten nearly identical plans to their old employer plans. People I know who buy their own health insurance have totally adequate coverage, and this is in a "blue northeast state" that, according to you, has inadequate options.

> Others in the thread have mentioned they have gotten nearly identical plans to their old employer plans.

One person said this, without mentioning either their state or any details of their previous plan.

> a "blue northeast state" that, according to you, has inadequate options.

I did not say that every "blue, northeast state" has "inadequate options". I said that many states have terrible options, and that, contrary to the stereotype of ACA issues being limited to poorer red states that refused to expand Medicare, this set includes wealthier blue states.

> Do you have any evidence that the plans aren't sufficient?

You stated that "public exchanges are guaranteed to cover their existing condition", an assertion of universality. This is completely false, for reasons that I have explained. The federal statues guaranteeing coverage for individual conditions are incredibly narrow and exclude both the most expensive conditions for patients, as well as almost all expenses for chronic conditions.

Furthermore, it's very easy to disprove this assertion of universality, because it's incredibly easy to find counterexamples - the ACA has been around for a decade, and there are tons of forum posts all over the past ten years from people struggling to find non-COBRA coverage that continues to match their needs after losing a job. A marketplace plan cannot deny you an insurance plan for a preexisting condition, but that doesn't mean that there exists a marketplace plan that will cover it.

The fact that you happen to know people who are satisfied with their coverage for themselves is neither here nor there, because it does not contradict the main point: the ACA is no guarantee that people losing their jobs will actually have any non-COBRA options to address their health needs (and given that Microsoft has pretty comprehensive insurance and employs people in nearly every state, it's all but certain that the marketplace options will be appreciably worse for many of those people than the status quo).

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#244

There was a sentiment in an earlier discussion [0] that this is "a war on tech wages" but for years the argument was that tech will make many other jobs obsolete (which would justify wage growth for tech employees). Remember, e.g., the Jack Ma era and his proclamations that we should all get into arts because tech will take care of the rest? Is the current round of layoffs an admission that the "software will eat the…

But the arts are being automated too lol

Yeah Stable Diffusion, Midjourney and the ilk are going to automate away some of the art jobs, or at least some of the workflow involved in art (concept art etc)

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re laying people off because it’s cool to lay people off. Layoffs are social, not economical. https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-la...

If the evidence suggested that periodic layoffs are good for company longevity and profit margins, you can bet that none of these academics would shout it from the rooftops. Moreover, none of the evidence was collected under the current economic environment, where a decade of cheap money and growth fantasies have fueled an unsustainable hiring frenzy.

If only these academics would listen to random HN posters!

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#246
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular belief, at a company the size of MSFT - the execs could drop all their wages to $0 - and it would not be able to save 5% of the workforce from getting fired. The execs get paid a lot - but there's not that many of them, and there's 200k people at MSFT making an average salary (with benefits) >$200k. That's >$40B per year. The execs don't take home >$2B per year. Satya made <$60M last year. There's…

> it would not be able to save 5% of the workforce from getting fired This part of your statement has no relevance given MS's position, even taking into account the current market. MS as a company is in no danger here. In fact, they are doing quite well.

> This part of your statement has no relevance given MS's position, even taking into account the current market.

You hire people if you need them, fire them if you don't. It's really that simple.

Your employer doesn't owe you a job.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#247

> Could there be a tech recession? Yes. Was there a bubble in valuations? Absolutely. Did Meta overhire? Probably. I'm glad we agree > But is that why they are laying people off? Of course not. Meta has plenty of money. These companies are all making money. How does this follow any logic at all. He does not even dispute that overhiring took place. Should companies continue with a stupid hiring frenzy until they run o…

What are you quoting? Neither this thread nor the article says these quotes.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re laying people off because it’s cool to lay people off. Layoffs are social, not economical. https://news.stanford.edu/2022/12/05/explains-recent-tech-la...

If the evidence suggested that periodic layoffs are good for company longevity and profit margins, you can bet that none of these academics would shout it from the rooftops. Moreover, none of the evidence was collected under the current economic environment, where a decade of cheap money and growth fantasies have fueled an unsustainable hiring frenzy.

It's a social exercise at companies like Microsoft. You lay people off because you are expected to lay people off, hell you'll look irresponsible for not laying people off.

We're gonna sit here and pretend that Microsoft, a company that printed $72B in net income last fiscal year somehow needs to lay off 10k workers to survive?

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular belief, at a company the size of MSFT - the execs could drop all their wages to $0 - and it would not be able to save 5% of the workforce from getting fired. The execs get paid a lot - but there's not that many of them, and there's 200k people at MSFT making an average salary (with benefits) >$200k. That's >$40B per year. The execs don't take home >$2B per year. Satya made <$60M last year. There's…

MS c-suite makes a total of roughly ~$135,244,086, the board of directors make a total of about $4m (gates takes no salary at all, btw). This 10k layoff, at an average salary of 190,302, is about $2b a year. So yeah not quite - but for them to suffer no consequences is still pretty gross.

Worse thing is that MSFT minted $72B in net income last year, so these layoffs are really about them saving...2.7% of net income in exchange for messing with the lives of 10k employees.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 10k workers

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that’s not it. The cost is sky high because its the price that your employer, plus you normally pay. At tech companies in particular where the employer usually picks up 90-100% of the cost, it makes COBRA look crazy expensive when you suddenly have to pay 100% instead of 10%.

I believe it; but is interesting in the context that I have purchased ACA plans on the open market comparable to my company insurance, and they were far far below the cobra price. For reference a basically identical ACA healthcare.gov plan I bought for ~1k when COBRA charged something around $3k.

ACA is subsidized, COBRA is not. That's where the huge price difference comes from.
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