Microsoft to lay off 11k employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#241

Post by medler » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

hbn wrote: post #169

bentcorner wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Twitter stopped working entirely for some 3rd party apps late last week. Dev communication looks extremely slim and the only comms has been a very vague tweet: "Twitter is enforcing its long-standing API rules. That may result in some apps not working."

I'm pretty sure breaking 3rd party clients was intentional. Twitter had tightened the reigns on them years ago because it just cost them money to keep them alive. It makes sense that would be first on the chopping block when they're looking for cost-saving measures, and I figured it was inevitable regardless of the Elon takeover. I have a feeling it's coming for reddit too. That one I dread cause their official app i…

If disabling the API were intentional, a well-run company would have announced it beforehand.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#242

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

hirsin wrote: post #149

pyrrhotech wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silly to mention the cash on the balance sheet without also mentioning the debt of $77B. In reality, the net cash position is on the order of magnitude of $30B which puts a much tighter perspective on the impact of this cut. 40% of all public companies created since market inception in 1871 have gone bankrupt including many of the bluest of the blue chips. Complacent thinking like this is often the reason. Addit…

That's fantastic debt though, at presumably low interest rates. A dollar in my pocket today is worth way more than a dollar in debt at 3.0% interest or less. You can't subtract debt from cash on hand and get a usable value, they're different types.

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#243

Post by __alexs » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:18 PM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #34

11,000 people - let's say an average loaded cost of $250k/yr. That's... ~$3b/yr these folks cost MSFT. Granted, it's per year, but ... keeping these people on for another 3 years would cost ~$10b. MSFT currently have $100b cash on hand. It's gotta be a little... frustrating to get be part of a 5% cut when there's so much free cash sitting around. I know, it's a narrow view of corporate finance, and I don't have the '…

They also want to spend $68b on Activision which might put a bit of a dent in that cash hoard.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#244

Post by thedougd » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

Xeoncross wrote: post #4

I'm wondering what data really drives the back-and-forth at big tech. We've seen google, amazon, microsoft, meta, etc.. do hiring freezes, then layoffs. Hiring freeze, then back open, or layoffs then more layoffs later. I would expect a longer term plan than just looking forward or backwards one quarter which seems like what has been happening the last year. I would assume they had better information and insights tha…

Maybe they're doomed to follow the footsteps of their predecessors, IBM, HP, Cisco, Nortel, Dell, Intel, etc.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#245

Post by burkaman » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

applejacks wrote: post #219

simplotek wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would they spend any amount much less $3b or $10b to keep people they don’t need/want? I understand that HN is a US-centric forum, where neoliberalism dictates the baseline and the interpretation of all things in life is reduced to a simplistic transaction in a theoretical free market. However, society is comprised of people with family and a personal life and hopes and dreams and aspirations. Hiring someone ha…

Is it neoliberalism specifically, or even just generally living in a capitalist society? (Which hey, I'm happy enough to live in a capitalist society, it has been good to me, but I definitely notice myself evaluating nearly everything through a financial or transactional lens).

I think it's very easy to live in a capitalist society and still treat people as human beings rather than financial instruments, but if you live like that you probably will not become CEO of Microsoft.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#246

Post by dcolkitt » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:19 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #103

bink wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normally, hiring 11,000 people you "didn't need" would be a warning sign that management was incompetent and require much more than just laying off the unneeded workers. It would suggest that large reforms are needed in planning and hiring. But these days it's just dismissed as an "oops!".

They wanted 11,000 extra heads when the market was rewarding growth. Now that the market is rewarding bottom lines - they don't want 11,000 extra heads anymore. It's easy to "blame the Fed" for the market rewarding the bottom line. But we forget that the reason the market was so crazily rewarding growth 2 years ago was also... because of the Fed.

MSFT stock is barely moved on the announcement. Doesn't necessarily seem like the market is rewarding them.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#247

Post by hintymad » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:20 PM UTC

I was wondering to which year of employment level will all the lay-off roll back. For instance, FB has the same number of employees as they did back in Jan 2022 after the laid-off. Let's say the employment level went back to 2018 for the tech industry, would it be a bad thing? The packages back in 2018 were still pretty cushy.

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#248

Post by olliej » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #242

hirsin wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fantastic debt though, at presumably low interest rates. A dollar in my pocket today is worth way more than a dollar in debt at 3.0% interest or less. You can't subtract debt from cash on hand and get a usable value, they're different types.

[flagged]

A fantastic thing in fact!

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#249

Post by idontpost » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #242

hirsin wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fantastic debt though, at presumably low interest rates. A dollar in my pocket today is worth way more than a dollar in debt at 3.0% interest or less. You can't subtract debt from cash on hand and get a usable value, they're different types.

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: Microsoft to lay off 11k employees

#250

Post by daveslash » Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 9:22 PM UTC

birdymcbird wrote: post #137

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #25

It's hard not to read some of these stories and not think that somehow some of these companies are free-riding on the ability to do some firings with minimal pushback because of the "well, look at what everyone else is doing!" climate that exists now. I'm having a hard time teasing out how much of this is driven by some sort of fundamental analysis of the economy, some collective BigCo CEO shared thinking, or, at my…

msft is a business..not charity. my experience at two big tech companies said this extremely overdue. especially since about 2012.. lots of added head count. managers and sr. managers and directors #1 priority on increasing head count to grow empires and get promotions. it elephant in the room supported by easy US fed policy. uncomfortable truth these people dont want to admit. what is vision for these new teams? if…

re >> #1 priority on increasing head count to grow empires and get promotions.

I'm sure that's the case always, but I'm convinced it's the case more often than many of us realize. I also recall this being discussed in David Graeber's book "Bullshit Jobs"