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Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

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Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#241
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see why you like the suburbs. But it's essentially a hoax, it's like living above your means on a bunch of credit cards - at least for most people (not all). Affordability for a lot of suburbs is when you allow for degrading infrastructure and moving more and more towards bankruptcy of cities. Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends. In essence, living in a properly maintained suburbia is no…

> Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends Do you have real examples of this? The past few suburbs I've lived in have been very prosperous, as a counter-example anecdote. I don't doubt some towns/suburbs are having financial troubles... but so are mega-cities too. Recall all the city bailout money that got spread around during the pandemic? How much of it went to small suburbs vs. mega-cities?…

> miles of idling cars stuck in traffic every day for hours in these mega-cities

A US problem, created by the very suburbia that forces people to buy cars. All those suburbans are going to go downtown to work. Naturally you get congestion.

The argument for cities is that you can build no-car-required infrastructure that is both cheaper and easier for humans. Like in Europe etc.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#242
post #236
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in one of top 20 densest municipalities in the US (Somerville MA) with 18k people per square mile, and none of those things are an issue here. You can have density without noise.

Having lived in Somerville I’m going to disagree on the “without noise”. Sure it’s not like living next to Times Square but it’s far noisier than a neighborhood of single family homes.

No thanks, leaf blowers and other lawn care equipment is pretty damn noisy.

That and the crushing car dependency.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#243
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick any moderate sized city in Europe! There's no reason Americans have to choose between glass and concrete imposing megastructures a la (parts of) NYC or sprawling car-dependent and socially atomized burbs a la Houston/Phoenix etc. We can have moderately dense, highly walkable, transit-connected, safe, clean, private, quiet, socially vibrant, affordable towns and suburbs all over the country. We just choose not to…

The thing is, America is very big. For perspective, America is just shy of the square mileage of all of Europe - but America is just one country... and it has half the population of Europe. This means things can be, and are, very spread out. It is not unusual for a person in the US to live 20-60+ miles from their work - by choice. It is simply not possible for everyone in the US to live in or near these mega-cities.…

> The thing is, America is very big. For perspective, America is just shy of the square mileage of all of Europe - but America is just one country... and it has half the population of Europe.

Every time Americans use that argument to defend anything that is wrong with the US policy, it looks crazy to people who are looking at the situation from another place around the world.

Neither size nor population are arguments for anything. There are gigantic countries on the planet that do not have America's suburb/car problem. They not only have well-run cities, but they also build fast trains and whatnot. The main trick is in not setting up entire urbanization and infrastructure to maximize profit for real estate, automotive and oil industries by spreading out people to immense areas like in the US. So, in that regard, the people who say that the 'suburban American dream' was a scam, they are right: It can be sustained in a few very rich regions. It is unsustainable for anywhere else. Even in those rich regions it causes many problems ranging from inefficiency to traffic congestion in the cities where the suburbanites have to go to work.

> When I visit mega-cities, I see overt drug usage on the streets, trash everywhere, homeless camps everywhere

Those have nothing to do with the concept of cities but everything to do with the US policies that prevent social services with public spending in order to maximize the tax breaks for the corporations and the rich.

> We don't get to tell each other how to live.

Actually, they do - you are spending their tax money for your inefficient suburb in a much higher rate than your tax money that they are spending for their city. An inefficient system is inefficient, even if those who run that system can afford to run it - like your local prosperous suburb. For the regional infrastructure in your own locale to be affordable by your suburb, a lot of taxpayer money will have to be spent for the society-wide infrastructure. So that the costs of being integrated to the larger infrastructure can even be affordable in your region regardless of its prosperity. From the larger power network to the transportation and communication networks, from production & supply chains to judiciary, police, even defense & military.

There is no small region that can afford the modern local amenities that they have without having a much larger society making those possible through society's aggregated spending regardless of how rich the region is.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#244
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see why you like the suburbs. But it's essentially a hoax, it's like living above your means on a bunch of credit cards - at least for most people (not all). Affordability for a lot of suburbs is when you allow for degrading infrastructure and moving more and more towards bankruptcy of cities. Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends. In essence, living in a properly maintained suburbia is no…

> Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends Do you have real examples of this? The past few suburbs I've lived in have been very prosperous, as a counter-example anecdote. I don't doubt some towns/suburbs are having financial troubles... but so are mega-cities too. Recall all the city bailout money that got spread around during the pandemic? How much of it went to small suburbs vs. mega-cities?…

As long as I get to make 90% of streets in my city also dead ends to prevent through traffic, we're on the same page. I too want my neighborhood streets safe enough for kids to play in; the only reason they're not is through traffic, mostly from the suburbs.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#245
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it was in the 90s... please look at real estate date today :) Cities generate the tax base and subsidize the rest. This is shown in every case. It's not good or bad, just a reality of how density works.

But look at the trend post-Covid. It's basically reversing itself. San Francisco is going be completely screwed by the exodus of workers who live in the city and commuters. It's one big cycle, people moved to cities during WW2, then out to the suburbs during the 60's. Then back into cities in the 90's, now back out in the 2020's.

So which is it -- is SF a hell hole because it's too expensive or is it dying because real estate is getting cheaper?

SF will be fine.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#246
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee wiz, I’ve lived in a tiny rural town in AZ, moderate sized city in Northern AZ, Palo Alto, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Seattle, Raleigh, and a small town outside of Albany. Yes , the fact that your nearby city is the worst of both worlds is my point. This is a condemnation of the way we build cities. Note that you are still near a city due to the amenities and opportunities that only cities can provide. This effect appe…

I think you are mistaking the European way of policing with how cities are constructed. Most of the problems big cities have in the US come from high tolerance of overt crime, drug abuse, homelessness and more. - things that are mostly not tolerated elsewhere, and used to not be tolerated here either. Half of the names of cities you have lived in are definitely mega-cities, or very close to being a mega-city. Manhatt…

Palo Alto qualifies as a mega-city?

What exactly do you consider a "city" as opposed to a mega city?

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#247
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least American suburbs are ultra car-dependent meaning you're not walking anywhere (literally physically degrading to both you and the environment) and you do not have chance social encounters at nearly the frequency of any walking city (socially degrading). This is not to say there aren't real benefits to life in the burbs and serious disadvantages to city life, but it's fairly evident by now that American suburb…

At least with WFH, the trend is reversing. People are leaving urban cores and moving to the suburbs where they can get more space for less money and avoid a lot of the QOL issues. San Francisco is a great example. The once bustling downtown is losing business at a rapid click not only because residents have left, but also office workers aren't coming in anywhere near as often. I predict it'll be a positive feedback l…

I predict that with people who weren't interested in the amenities of the city and not contributing to the culture and community gone, SF will recover some of the culture it lost when high rents pushed all the creatives out. It'll make SF even better than before.

Cities are the lifeblood of any culture and economy, after all.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#248
post #242
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in Somerville I’m going to disagree on the “without noise”. Sure it’s not like living next to Times Square but it’s far noisier than a neighborhood of single family homes.

No thanks, leaf blowers and other lawn care equipment is pretty damn noisy. That and the crushing car dependency.

Sounds like it’s not for you. Great.

But a lot of people like it, so hey, good for them too!

To each his/her own.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#249
post #245
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But look at the trend post-Covid. It's basically reversing itself. San Francisco is going be completely screwed by the exodus of workers who live in the city and commuters. It's one big cycle, people moved to cities during WW2, then out to the suburbs during the 60's. Then back into cities in the 90's, now back out in the 2020's.

So which is it -- is SF a hell hole because it's too expensive or is it dying because real estate is getting cheaper? SF will be fine.

Sure it’ll be fine. Just like it was “fine” in the 60-70s when it lost 30% of its population.

But with plunging tax revenue the city is going to be faced with some tough choices.

Re: Nearly six in 10 US young adults live within 10 miles of where they grew up

#250
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see why you like the suburbs. But it's essentially a hoax, it's like living above your means on a bunch of credit cards - at least for most people (not all). Affordability for a lot of suburbs is when you allow for degrading infrastructure and moving more and more towards bankruptcy of cities. Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends. In essence, living in a properly maintained suburbia is no…

> Budget analysis for a lot of suburbs show very troubling trends Do you have real examples of this? The past few suburbs I've lived in have been very prosperous, as a counter-example anecdote. I don't doubt some towns/suburbs are having financial troubles... but so are mega-cities too. Recall all the city bailout money that got spread around during the pandemic? How much of it went to small suburbs vs. mega-cities?…

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