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FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

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Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#241

Post by JohnFen »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #137
Operative0198 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny. Roll back the time to about 2-3 years ago, YouTube's recommendation algorithm was terribly good. It's the only reason I still kept my YouTube account but every time I visit YT I feel less of a need to keep the account now.

As a mass YouTube users probably spend more time on the site if they can't find what they want; I get the impression this sort of thing happens a lot online now, string users along so you can feed them ads from your customers. I assume that's why they made Google search results so bad, rather than send you straight where you want to go they drive you around the block to run the meter up.

I think Google's search results have declined as Google has deployed more and more ML systems to support it. Perhaps something similar has happened with YouTube.

It seems to me that Google is expecting more from ML/AI than the tech is actually able to deliver. That is, of course, hardly a problem limited to Google.

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#243

Post by shepherdjerred »

ParetoOptimal wrote: post #221
shepherdjerred wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would've made this same argument a year ago. Today I think it's morally acceptable to circumvent tracking, advertising, etc. for behemoths like YouTube, Google, etc. They are simply too powerful, and have too much mindshare. There's nothing close to YouTube in terms of ubiquity. I don't have any sympathy for a monopoly, and I hope that YouTube's days are numbered so that a more open alternative like PeerTube can ta…

> My only real concern is channel owners. I want them to be able to be reasonably compensated for their work today. I wonder if it's possible to spoof viewing of the ads for the sake of channel owners without reducing privacy or being dusturbed by ads...

> I wonder if it's possible to spoof viewing of the ads for the sake of channel owners without reducing privacy or being dusturbed by ads...

I wonder if this is a bit morally worse.

Not viewing the ads screws over Google. Faking the ad view costs the company running the ad money. A lot of smaller companies advertise on YouTube... but they often use pretty standard gross techniques like flat-out lying, deceiving, or playing to human psychology. It can be useful to dissect ads to understand how gross and manipulative they are.

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#244

Post by makeitdouble »

robertlagrant wrote: post #167
makeitdouble wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This arguments stands in a fully rational market with fair competition guaranteed by a controlling entity. Youtube doesn't have any competition at its scale, not using it isn't a rational choice. Even school assignments will have YouTube links to watch. I think we're at the point where your statement sounds like a "if you don't like the Standard Oil company just don't buy their oil" rehash.

A controlling entity would not guarantee fairness. Currently the way to compete is to stand up your own equivalent YouTube, possibly saving yourself a lot of money by using YouTube's open sourced codecs. If there were a controlling entity you'd have to stand up your own equivalent YouTube, and a load of government people to wine and dine.

TBF nothing would guarantee fairness, the very notion of “free market” is pretty much an idealistic vision that only exists in very small niches from time to time. As long as you can game the system, there’s no reason not to do so from the start.

The current way to compete against YouTube is to finance a cloud provider to rise at that scale or build your own data centers which will land you somewhere in the top owning entities in the world. Then you need to lure creators and pay them the same or more than Youtube, and you might be seeing users and advertisers finally coming to your platform in significant numbers. Which also means you’ll enter into talks with content rights providers, pass contracts, and build an army of lawyers to deal with the whole world (including as you say, wining and dining the biggest entities that you need to stay in at least a neutral position toward your growth)

Saving money on open sourced codecs is probably not your main concern.

The alternative being to start your service small and grow organically, but in a country where YouTube isn’t available (fun thinking time: where could that be ?)

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#245

Post by danielsokil »

n4bz0r wrote: post #53

People here talking about how they don't want YouTube to make a profile of their preferences, and here I am, wishing YouTube had a better profile of my preferences. Lately, there is almost no new videos in my recommendation feed. It's mostly either the things I've already watched or new videos from the channels I'm already subscribed to. It really feels like I've exhausted the internet at some point. This can't possi…

YouTube has a hidden button labeled "New to you". I've recently discovered it, seems to do a better job of recommending new videos, compared to the home page recommendations.

Here is a screenshot on YouTube mobile: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9zk4gaihuxu7WABF6

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#246

Post by brookst »

charcircuit wrote: post #151
brookst wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s say you’ve got a tire you can’t seat on a wheel. Which of these is the YouTube algorithm going to optimize for: 1) a 60 second video showing how to use wd-40 and a lighter to set the bead, or 2) a 7 minute showing how beads can be broken, things you might try, an ad, some bad ideas, a funny guy yelling, another ad, and then how to set a bead with flame Increased time on the platform is a proxy for more ads show…

Let's do an informal experiment. In incognito I searched "how to seat a tire on a wheel" The first result is 2:43 then 3:14 then a shorts drawer which are sub minute videos then 5:43 then 3:29. It turns out that YouTube is not optimizing for showing 7 minute videos. >YouTube optimizes for maximizing ads While they do monitor for regressions of metrics like ad revenue improvements to the algorithm aim to improve the u…

That's funny. When I do exactly the same search on Youtube (incognito, but Chrome incognito so they still know my profile), I get videos of times 2:43, 10:20, 7:49, 7:37, and 7:42.

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#247

Post by lrvick »

judge2020 wrote: post #236
lrvick wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you cannot opt out of Google having a list of every video you watch and when/where you watch from tied to your credit card details and browser. Google will use this data to sort feeds and recommendations in a way that helps meet the behavior modification goals of their partners. When creators upload to platforms that let me anonymously pay them with money, I will happily do so. LBRY has proven this can be done.

How do you think creators gain a following in a world without a recommendation system? I can assure you only maybe a dozen of the (english) creators in the top 1000 are actually popular from word-of-mouth, with the rest entirely dependent on the recommendation system for their entire channel. I think you misunderstand what YouTube is. YouTube's primary product IS its recommendation system. Other platforms will happil…

I would counter that by asking how someone who is not blessed by the almighty advertizer-friendly algorithm can ever be seen. I suggest that the internet is healthiest when anyone has a real chance of gaining a following because they organically went viral or were upvoted by users like frequently happens on mastodon or even hackernews... even if the content is not advertiser friendly.

I understand what YouTube is quite well. The product is providing the most addictive advertiser friendly content possible that ignores all mental health studies. The product is cigarettes and like cigarettes, their use will only be reduced when enough people are educated on the harms and reject the second hand smoke in our public places.

Humans are capable of simply searching for things and subscribing to things like RSS. RSS was peak internet and ActivityPub is the next generation of this. We can go back to that, while maybe adding unbiased, open source, and provably fair user voted topical discovery engines.

https://odysee.com/ is getting close with an open source system with community voted content discovery and creator support via microtransaction tips. You do not need to be advertiser friendly to succeed there, and we all get the same view of the world.

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#248

Post by lrvick »

jsnell wrote: post #231
lrvick wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You talk as though a refusal to compromise privacy is unreasonable. We all need privacy to protect ourselves and each other. What happens when your searches for a medical condition are sold to your insurance company? Or when your political searches are used to inform new gerrymandering lines? Or when an anti-choice state gives Google a warrant demanding the identity of everyone who has made searches for abortion info…

Sure, it'd be extremely reasonable for you to not compromise your privacy, and only view content from creators that allow you to pay with your favorite cryptocurrency. But I thought that wasn't your stance; instead you will view the content anyway, but just make sure the creators are not compensated. That's not a very principled defense of privacy, is it? It's just taking stuff for free because you can. (If your real…

Most content in the world is provided exclusively on privacy-hostile platforms.

We either suggest people remove themselves from modern culture entirely, or we suggest they use tools that let them continue to partake in culture while rejecting harmful surveillance capitalism models.

In both cases the surveillance capitalists do not get any data or money, but the latter case at least privacy concerned citizens see the content, are still a part of society, and can buy merch or offer anonymous tips to creators directly in the instances they are given the chance via conventions, or anonymous tip-jar donation systems.

I choose the option better for users and creators. The surveillance capitalists get starved of revinue but if it hurts them enough they will be forced to change models just like the music industry did.

People pirated music to avoid DRM but still became fans and bought concert tickets.

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#249

Post by appendjeff »

huggingmouth wrote: post #195
atoav wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a website which would only display videos with close to zero views. It is endlessly fascinating what stuff tou get to see there. Stuff that you wouldn't be able to find on youtube if you actively searched for using their search bar. Found it: http://astronaut.io/

I wish it was available via https.

Why?

Re: FreeTube – A Private YouTube Client

#250

Post by dirtyid »

capex wrote: post #110

My biggest gripe with Youtube right now is how they've left channel subscription just as a long list. I have hundreds of subscriptions, and they are clearly around a few of my interests...

videodeck for youtube is an alright interface

i ended up using this script that adds new videos into predefined playlists

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/Elijas/auto-...

this is one feature i wish more 3rd party clients had, instead of just sorting channels into categories, only do new videos in playlists which is easier to manage.

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