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How to sell tickets fairly

barnabas.me

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Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#241

Post by blowski »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #237
blowski wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three categories of criticism being mixed up here. 1. You cannot influence the market, it will always revert to form. 2. You can influence the market, but in doing so, you will cause too many damaging side-effects. 3. You should not influence the market, because it’s morally wrong to do so. The first comment was very much in category 1, but now it sounds like category 2. The problem with category 2 argument…

Well 2. is only a subset of 1., on a long enough time scale, as all human 'influences' will vanish too. Animals, even plants, experience market forces to some extent. So I would say 'You cannot influence the market over millions of years, it will always revert to form.'

Within the next million years, I predict we’ll find different solutions. For now, I’ll focus on the next few decades.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#242

Post by Cederfjard »

mhb wrote: post #231
Cederfjard wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the kid passes at $30 because money is tight, they’d prefer to pay $20 and want to try for that, but scalpers snatch up all the cheapest tickets before the kid is able to. The kid still really wants to go, however, and is willing to actually pay the scalper up to $40 when push comes to shove, even if it hurts a bit? Or if they weren’t organized enough or able to commit to going early on, but still have the pu…

Yeah, the price/time algorithm for the auction can't accommodate every single kid's temporal and financial idiosyncracies. Compared to what?

I was mostly asking because the explanation in the parent comment seemed overly simplistic, and to indicate that this approach would destroy the scalpers’ business model entirely. I’m totally open to the idea that this is a good solution that would improve on the status quo.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#243

Post by Cederfjard »

aetherson wrote: post #197
Cederfjard wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the kid passes at $30 because money is tight, they’d prefer to pay $20 and want to try for that, but scalpers snatch up all the cheapest tickets before the kid is able to. The kid still really wants to go, however, and is willing to actually pay the scalper up to $40 when push comes to shove, even if it hurts a bit? Or if they weren’t organized enough or able to commit to going early on, but still have the pu…

Then they learned a valuable lesson? I mean, this seems like a low stakes operation. Nobody on their deathbed is like, "If only that Taylor Swift ticket had cost $10 less."

See my response to your sibling comment.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#245

Post by dan-robertson »

silvestrov wrote: post #199
buro9 wrote: post #154

The proposed idea is a technical one that doesn't work for the promoters or artists or venues. The promoters want to know very early whether the venue is the right one for the number attending and whether to upsize, add dates, or even to go the other way to a smaller venue. The time to book a venue is very long... So they need as complete data as they can about sales as early as possible (they would love if 80% of th…

There is the old trope that McDonalds is primarily a real estate business. In the same line of thinking, you could say Ticketmaster is a "scape goat" business so the artists and venues can get max profit while still coming of as innocent angels. It is now all Ticketmaster's fault. Venues and artists are innocent. This would explain why you can't fix it: where would the scapegoating go? When you have larger demand tha…

Seems like it’s not so simple to say that ticketmaster is getting artists/venues max profits. If you look at how much money could be made by scalping (before it became harder), that was money people would have potentially paid to the artist/venue instead.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#246

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

Burning Man-style ticket sale systems require a lot of extra workflow features, like a waiting room, ticket claim, raffle selection, identity confirmation. They have multiple phases of sales where the price increases. They have hardship tickets, if you can prove you simply can't afford the normal price.

Resale for above original value is not allowed, and if you're reported the ticket may be forfeit and original seller banned. You can transfer a ticket to another person using their ticket management system, and I imagine you could also "sell back" your ticket to be given away at the box office as hardship tickets.

Most people do buy as many as they can and sell or give away the extras to their friends or people on forums looking for tickets. While controversial, it is nice to go to an event with your friends, and it does feel like you're helping strangers who are interested enough that they hunt around on forums for a ticket.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#247

Post by dan-robertson »

onion2k wrote: post #176

Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing. The only "fair" way to sell a good that's in high demand and you want everyo…

This doesn’t sound very true to me. My guess is that there are a much smaller number of people willing to pay $4k to a scalper for tickets and the price reflects the small supply of scalper tickets.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#248

Post by dqpb »

deanc wrote: post #141
bo1024 wrote: post #18

I think this is great if your goal is to clear the market at a competitive price. But a lot of artists want to sell tickets below market price. That makes the problem a lot harder. The obvious thing to do is have a lottery, but it's hard to stop people from using multiple identities (especially scalpers).

It’s really easy in many European countries to prevent identity abuse. In Finland there is a system called “strong authentication” where you log in with your bank. It’s directly tied to your social security number and banks do a very strict job of identifying you in person before you open your accounts. It works and I’ve not heard of anyone gaming this system. It’s used by the banks themselves, the government, tax of…

Lotteries aren't fair.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#249

Post by wombat-man »

StingyJelly wrote: post #196
wombat-man wrote: post #61

- Digital only tickets - By default, the tickets are not transferrable. Use your app on your phone to get in. - You can pay a fee to make tickets transferrable/scalpable. - The fee increases as more tickets are sold with this option (set ceiling on max number of tickets with this option sold) So okay, you want to scalp tickets, you have to pay more and people who don't want to transfer pay less.

I don't like that idea. First, personally, I'll rather pass than install that app. Second, it would need to heavily rely on device fingerprinting and obfuscation to give scalpers hard time trying to modify the app. Software protection will likely fail anyway when both scalpers and people buying from them have aligned interests. Even if the software protection holds, the price of second-hand phones may be too low comp…

really? I already use axs and ticketmaster apps for tickets. Are you using pdfs or something? The app is nice because it rotates the barcode every minute, and idk how else you'd achieve that. I guess a webapp could work.

I don't think you need to rely on device fingerprinting, just make sure they're logged into their ticketing account. You might see people start to sell accounts with single/pair tickets but that just sounds like a pain, and we could mitigate it if it becomes a problem.

Re: How to sell tickets fairly

#250

Post by dqpb »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #7
adam_arthur wrote: post #5

I don’t understand at all why prices aren’t raised in these severe demand/supply imbalance situations. Same applies to PS5 etc There wouldn’t be a shortage at all if it were priced appropriately. And scalpers just end up capturing that value anyway

Because sports teams and singers need broad audience interest to maintain their brand’s popularity, which can drive things like merchandise sales, future concerts, music streaming, etc. If they simply sold to the highest bidders, the populace at large will stop being fans and they will move onto the next entertainer. In the short term, you might make a little extra from richer people, but longer term you will fall ou…

This argument makes no sense. A stadium excludes the same number of fans regardless of your selection criteria.
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