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KDE beats macOS

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Re: KDE beats macOS

#241

Post by dsego »

stratosmacker wrote: post #127
thomassmith65 wrote: post #120

I hate the Mac*, but even so, nothing on that list of complaints is valid. Here's an example of what I consider a valid complaint: the placement of a Mac's app menubar at the top of the screen, instead of the top of an application window, is wrong. Two pieces of evidence: (1) it leads to confusion with multiple monitors and (2) new Mac users invariably have trouble remembering to look for app-specific choices at the…

The former is true, KDE ships with a clipboard manager with history, macos just has copy/paste. You need something like Maccy to manage history.

I love the irony of complaining about missing a native functionality that's available as a third party app, but turning a blind eye to general lack of productive software on the linux/kde platform. It's like little smug kids teasing other kids with petty things "ha ha, my OS doesn't have a decent commercial photo editor or video production software, but you don't have a native clipboard manager, ha ha".

Re: KDE beats macOS

#242

Post by noveltyaccount »

lampe3 wrote: post #20

To be honest I stopped caring what OS I'm running as long as it is not windows. I have a terminal open 99% of the time and I almost never open finder or Gnome Files. pacman or brew? really I don't care. Both install what I want with one command. VS Code is basically the same on every system. Gnome/KDE/MacOS all of them have there pros and cons. Right now what wins for me is the apple silicon. I can develop stuff with…

I used MacOS full time for a month or two (coming from Windows), and more recently Ubuntu for about a month. My preference is Windows with WSL, but for the most part it's all just a trade-off of which quirks you prefer. Most of my work is in VS Code or a web browser. I prefer window management on Windows (snap, and I really don't like the full screen view on Mac) and think Explorer is better than Finder. But again...get used to one set of quirks vs another. It's totally* fungible. My next machine will probably be a Mac for the silicon, unless AMD's 5nm Zen4 really shines next year.

*Except for Outlook on Mac, what a useless turd compared to Outlook on Windows.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#243

Post by alsobrsp »

aruggirello wrote: post #220
trymas wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed one hundred percent. Why extremely biased rant from specific DE subreddit (also biased) gets so many upvotes? Who cares? My additions: * Poor to non-existing window tiling (at least Rectangle has very good defaults and works well) There are apps for that, like writer mentioned - so what's the problem? I'd argue that using Expose, Mission Control, Multiple desktops and controlling them with touchpad swipes is f…

> * Lack of native clipboard > To be fair - I am intrigued what does writer mean with `native clipboard`? Some sort of built-in app for clipboard management? You don't know native clipboard? It's like a universal second, "quick" clipboard in Linux. You select something somewhere - copied. You middle click somewhere - pasted. It's so much faster and super convenient, it supports terminal and is independent of the "mai…

Being a Linux guy and having used MacOS for the last few years at work. I think what the OP is talking about is the clipboard history. It was one of my missing features when I start. I found Maccy [1] and that solved any issue I had.

[1] https://maccy.app/

Re: KDE beats macOS

#244

Post by rollcat »

kuschku wrote: post #187
rollcat wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being usable out of the box? It's interesting that you bring up this point in defense of KDE, because that's exactly my problem with it, especially when contrasted with macOS. Every issue I have with KDE boils down to: "there are too many options, and none of them make the system feel right". > decent window snapping In my opinion, no window manager gets it right. I've made a shot at it with my Hammerspoon config[1…

> I think integration within the Apple ecosystem is what really outshines all competition That may be, but a good OS should offer the same level of integration with devices of all kinds. Like the good old "Mac vs PC" ads suggested back in the day. KDE has KDE Connect for shared clipboard, sending files between devices, and such functionality. Which even supports Windows on PC, and allows syncing between multiple mobi…

I have no doubt KDE Connect works on more platforms - which is great, but this is exactly my point vs OP's claim: all of these things work on Apple devices out of the box, whereas on other platforms, you have to (at least) install a third-party app.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#245

Post by doix »

trymas wrote: post #194
tgv wrote: post #161

How does this particular list of very minor gripes get so many upvotes? And it's not just minor gripes, half of them are wrong. Some of them have been addressed by others, but: * Taking screenshots requires to click the preview in order to copy to clipboard, which also causes to save it to Desktop. No, it doesn't. * Surprising lack of apps in the store Says someone defending KDE? But hey, strangely enough I'm typing…

Agreed one hundred percent. Why extremely biased rant from specific DE subreddit (also biased) gets so many upvotes? Who cares? My additions: * Poor to non-existing window tiling (at least Rectangle has very good defaults and works well) There are apps for that, like writer mentioned - so what's the problem? I'd argue that using Expose, Mission Control, Multiple desktops and controlling them with touchpad swipes is f…

> I either don't understand the problem or what's wrong with `cmd-tab` for app switching and `cmd-~` for app window switching.

The fact that they have two different shortcuts and you need to think about which one to use. It's a reasonable complaint in my mind, if you're used to only thinking about windows, now you have to spend extra brain power on thinking if you want to change app or window within the same app.

The reverse also applies, if you're always thinking in terms of windows grouped by app, then being forced to iterate all windows is annoying.

It really comes down to your mental model and what you are used too. If you try something else, it will most likely require deliberate effort to get used to it.

It's why I can only work in Linux. I'm too old to change my ways at this point, it's not worth the effort. When they finally kill X in 10-15 years, I'll hopefully be retired.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#246

Post by tgv »

xxxxyxxyxxyxyx wrote: post #189
tgv wrote: post #161

How does this particular list of very minor gripes get so many upvotes? And it's not just minor gripes, half of them are wrong. Some of them have been addressed by others, but: * Taking screenshots requires to click the preview in order to copy to clipboard, which also causes to save it to Desktop. No, it doesn't. * Surprising lack of apps in the store Says someone defending KDE? But hey, strangely enough I'm typing…

>Cmd-shift-G or Go > Go to folder isn't easy enough? What's KDE's super brilliant solution? Not sure about KDE, but every OS (admittedly not many), other than Apple's macOS and previous iteraitions I've used, have had an address bar with the file path. Both of the options you mentioned weren't obvious to me and I only found out about them from your comment. This isn't only an issue of familiarity but also an issue of…

Discoverability is a holy grail. With a list of features that has been expanding since 1984, you can't expect them all to be discoverable. And this one isn't a very frequent use case for normal users.

KDE does have a different target audience from macOS and Windows, but even as a dev/architect/sysadmin, I'm not sure if I would have found it. I've got a GNOME setup at work, but no idea if it has a similar feature.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#247

Post by dsego »

lucideer wrote: post #52
doix wrote: post #6

Intuitiveness is just what you are used to at this point. If you've been in the Apple ecosystem your whole life, then their UX seems intuitive to you. If you haven't, then it makes absolutely no sense. I first touched an apple device in my 20's, there was nothing intuitive about it. I couldn't do anything and was extremely frustrated. I'm sure the same applies to apple folks trying gnome/KDE/windows. People are getti…

Another hard disagree here. My daily driver personal laptop is a macbook, it's the best machine I've ever owned & my next laptop will most likely be a macbook. My work machine is also a macbook. But they are not intuitive nor highly "usable". After many years going through various osx/macOS transitions, it's an OS with objectively bad ux in many ways. That's not to say it's bad software. Apart from the hardware of my…

Small quality of life things like builtin pdf & image preview with annotations and signatures, a readily available pop-up dictionary, smooth gestures, built-in screen recording, quick preview for all types of files when you click the spacebar, sharing files quickly via airdrop, a good email reader, not to mention the whole creative suite and so on. Folks using windows and linux just don't know what they don't know, they don't miss it because they've never experienced it. They miss clipboard managers and windows snapping ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#248

Post by ubercow13 »

Steltek wrote: post #203
ubercow13 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Closing all document windows doesn't close the app I love this about macos. Its consistent: eg, you close documents with cmd+w one by one, until they're all gone. Then you press cmd+n to create a new document. This is consistent and logical. On other OS, cmd/ctrl+w does something different if you're closing the last document. Another example of the inconsistency it causes is in browsers when you close the last tab a…

Familiar != consistent. Mac is app-centric, all other mainstream OS's are window-centric, and they're all internally consistent. If you grew up with one system, the other feels alien and broken. For example, on MacOS, alt-tab not cycling through the list of windows feels so absurdly broken to me that I don't even bother trying to use that shortcut anymore. Focusing apps that don't even have a visual presence on scree…

When keyboard shortcuts that control window/document lifetime sometimes also control app lifetime depending on context, that is an internal inconsistency in the abstraction. Familiarity can help you deal with it just fine, but I don't think I was confusing the two.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#249

Post by lucideer »

weoijeiwj wrote: post #76
lucideer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard disagree here. My daily driver personal laptop is a macbook, it's the best machine I've ever owned & my next laptop will most likely be a macbook. My work machine is also a macbook. But they are not intuitive nor highly "usable". After many years going through various osx/macOS transitions, it's an OS with objectively bad ux in many ways. That's not to say it's bad software. Apart from the hardware of my…

"Everything works" :D Yeah, try to use an external non-Apple mouse with your macbook - your mouse will scroll in the opposite direction - changing it in setting will reverse the direction of your touchpad. Additional buttons will also not work. or try to connect an android phone to your macbook via USB-C. You will not be able to access the file system to copy files or do anything else. Printing doesn't work, unless y…

> try to use an external non-Apple mouse with your macbook - your mouse will scroll in the opposite direction

I use a Logitech mouse with my macbooks. Natural scrolling is available in Windows & Linux these days (as it's a user preference many have grown to prefer of late, on all platforms). I also use a Magic Touchpad 2 with a Linux machine & changing natural scrolling settings there will also affect both mouse & touchpad equally, so not sure which of this is specifically a mac problem? This is an odd complaint - scrolling on macbook touchpads presumably works in reverse to your own non-mac machine but you don't seem to have noticed?

> Additional buttons will also not work.

wfm ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

have had more issues on Linux here: all the many ways to get them to work do work fine I think, they're just a lot of fiddling. Piper's a cool project but doesn't seem to support many models in practice, GHub installation is patchy, which leaves fiddling with XOrg/xmodmap... if you're not on Wayland...

> connect an android phone to your macbook via USB-C

I've done this a lot to use adb, but haven't had a lot of need to copy files directly, so haven't noticed this issue. Does it just not show in Finder as a device or is it some deeper issue? Is it related to the USB connection mode in Android's settings?

> Printing doesn't work

wfm ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Never used AirPrint. Dunno what that is.

> obsolete Lightning cable...

True. This is awful. As are all of Apple's (many) hw lock-in practices.

> don't even talk about Docker working 20x times slower

Entirely a docker problem.

---

I'm contradicting a lot of your points but generally Apple are terrible in many ways. No disagreement there (and as I said one of them is usability). It's a trade-off though & in my experience (& I hear most people's) one of the things they do get right more often than others are things "just working". Windows actually used to be better at this I feel (did I imagine this?), but maybe regressed.

Re: KDE beats macOS

#250

Post by lucideer »

ubercow13 wrote: post #71
lucideer wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard disagree here. My daily driver personal laptop is a macbook, it's the best machine I've ever owned & my next laptop will most likely be a macbook. My work machine is also a macbook. But they are not intuitive nor highly "usable". After many years going through various osx/macOS transitions, it's an OS with objectively bad ux in many ways. That's not to say it's bad software. Apart from the hardware of my…

>Multiple windows within one app is badly supported. Finder window closing behaves different to everything - alt-tabbing to it rarely brings anything to the fore. How so? Finder seems to behave the same way as other multi-window apps, if you cmd-tab to it and a window is open, it will appear, and if there isn't the app will focus and you can press cmd-t to open a new window. This is consistent and in line with how ma…

> How so?

Finder behaviour is technically consistent, all things being equal, but it's inconsistent in practice as a knock-on effect of other limitations: the root of this is the (inability) to quit Finder*. If you never quit any apps you ever use, you could probably get consistent behaviour across them, but broadly speaking if you do quit apps you're not using, opening those apps will tend to bring up a new window. Since Finder can't be quit, "opening" it afresh constitutes switching to it in its windowless state. Technically consistent (same as switching to any windowless app) but inconsistent in practice (switching to any other app you have quit will bring a window to the fore).

I suspect this is one of those engineers-vs-ux things where engineers will close this as "works as intented" without considering that the "way it's supposed to be used" isn't necessarily a good model for actual user behaviour. The other potential excuse is "but Desktop icons", which is just rooted in the leaky abstraction of devs tending to DRY-ify desktop rendering by hard-linking it to the app that provides file mgmt. windows.

*: You can work around this with the `com.apple.finder QuitMenuItem` setting at the cost of Desktop icons, but we're talking default settings here.

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