Live data from Hacker News

My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

medium.com

241–250 of 284 posts

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#241

Out of curiosity, has there ever been a gag agreement that wasn't put forth by an absolute asshole to cover up their asshole behavior? Like are they ever used for good?

They can be used in court cases to avoid biasing the public/jury before the case is heard to completion. Depending on your perspective you may see this as protecting the assholes involved but its intent is for a balanced and impartial hearing.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#242
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that he can't issue a DCMA takedown of Doom Eternal.

The ownership of those works is certainly a complex issue. Contractually ownership would have been assigned to id, but what happens for unpaid work? What about works in progress? Depends on the contract terms and the interpretation of those terms. Sounds like a lot of grey areas, and there can be significant repercussions for making spurious DMCA claims.

As an amateur it sounds a bit like copyright with a lien or caveat attached. They legally own it now, but can't legally use it since it was rejected and not paid for. It's not as clear cut as if I personally ripped BFG Division to put in my indie game.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#244
post #207
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that Mick doesn't like getting lawyers involved, potentially to his detriment.

Indeed, lawyers will be involved now; just not on his side...

Based on the wording and the table of contents I'm pretty sure lawyers were involved in at least reviewing this open letter. A final ditch effort before the real expenses begin.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#245
post #178

This Mick Gordon guy has to be the most patient, understanding and abuse-tolerant person on the planet. Even after getting screwed over 30 times in a row he still was hopeful for a reasonable ending. I express that as a compliment, even if in the real world it works against you. It's not the main topic, but I like to call out attention to this: "incidences of online abuse escalated at an alarming rate as Marty’s Redd…

> We're talking about a disappointing audio track for a stupid game Uh, the Doom eternal soundtrack is widely regarded as one of the absolute best game soundtracks ever created. I've not actually read this whole thing (am about to), neither was I aware of this whole mess, but I'm a massive fan of Mick and the Doom soundtracks. They have hundreds of millions of streams on YouTube in total.

Minor correction, the Doom (2016) soundtrack is considered one of the absolute best soundtracks ever created. The Eternal one not so much

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#246
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lowering the volume does not equal introducing more dynamic range. It was just done to avoid clipping when pasting two bits of track on top of each other. The masters delivered by Mick Gordon were meant for use in the game. I'm not an expert at game audio engineering, but the brickwall mastering may have been intentional to make the music stand out over the rest of the game audio. Either way those masters were approv…

>Lowering the volume does not equal introducing more dynamic range. It was just done to avoid clipping when pasting two bits of track on top of each other. If you overlap two tracks, and reduce volume to avoiding clipping, the combined track has spikes in volume where they overlap. This is increased dynamic range. But like I said, it is not musically pleasant to listen to, and it's certainly reasonable to complain ab…

You're making an extremely pedantic distinction, which is only correct in a purely technical sense. Which is the worst kind of correct.

Yes, mastering engineers work from track-level dynamic range (usually achieved with slow-response compression) to transient-level dynamic range (fast compression/limiting), and the range in between. When the context for this discussion is about "brickwall limiting", we're talking about very fast, transient-level compression, and your comment mistakes slower dynamic range for the transient-level dynamic range everyone else is discussing.

So, no. In this context, what you're talking about isn't increased dynamic range.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#247
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The edits described in the article have no mention of additional dynamic range compression. The music in the OST is described as "normalized" to 0dBFS, which means simply adjusting the gain. This suggests that the dynamic range was already compressed (which is not unreasonable for game audio, because it will make the sound effects easier to hear).

The edit described in Gordon's post talks about overlaying tracks with zero crossfading done and instruments clashing, all being done hastily by hand. That alone is a massive contributor to the dynamic range brickwall. Gordon explicitly singled out those instances. He didnt say "the track as a whole has a DR brickwall through and through." He mentioned a complete lack of crossfading being the massive contributor to t…

"Brickwall" limiting is about very short-term transient compression; to oversimplify things, those limiters are operating at the timespan of 1-30 milliseconds, more or less.

These edits are a few hundred ms to a few seconds at a time, so it doesn't make sense that Gordon would refer to them as "brickwall".

(Another problem here is that evaluating a mastered waveform's dynamic range by eye is extremely subjective, and I would argue next to useless most of the time. The way these waveforms are shown in the post, we'd be hard-pressed to tell 9db (hyper-compressed) from 14db (pretty good) by eye. Professionals have software and metering to measure this; that's a much better approach.)

Bottom line: do these clumsy edits contribute to brickwalling? Really doesn't look like it, but I don't have the raw files to measure to know for sure. Are the edits good? Not in a million years.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The edit described in Gordon's post talks about overlaying tracks with zero crossfading done and instruments clashing, all being done hastily by hand. That alone is a massive contributor to the dynamic range brickwall. Gordon explicitly singled out those instances. He didnt say "the track as a whole has a DR brickwall through and through." He mentioned a complete lack of crossfading being the massive contributor to t…

"Brickwall" limiting is about very short-term transient compression; to oversimplify things, those limiters are operating at the timespan of 1-30 milliseconds, more or less. These edits are a few hundred ms to a few seconds at a time, so it doesn't make sense that Gordon would refer to them as "brickwall". (Another problem here is that evaluating a mastered waveform's dynamic range by eye is extremely subjective, and…

Now, applying a mastering limiter to sub-tracks? Extremely novice mistake, and could be described as brickwalling. Certainly within the realm of possibility given the novice quality of the editing here.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#249
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the same phenomenon that causes road rage. Collective pseudo-anonymity (and on the internet, literally pseudonymity) causes people to act in bizarre ways. The other people who are interacting with them via that mediated interface (internet, cars on road, phone, etc.) are at some level dehumanized. Very few people would do the kinds of things they do behind the screen or wheel of a car when sitting face t…

True, empathy is a function of distance.

But stating the obvious, not always actual physical distance since working remotely for example I don't feel like empathy is lacking. However it is an interesting component and I'm sure comes into play even with WFH.

Re: My full statement regarding DOOM Eternal

#250
post #57

I would expect this story from a struggling indie game dev startup but ID Games, Zenimax, Mick Gordon and Stratton are all huge players in the game dev industry -- thus this looks bad for the industry as a whole. I was always curious about why the Doom Eternal OST never really showed up on Spotify. This story explains that.

On the contrary, after the horror stories coming from Ubisoft and Activision Blizzard, sometimes requiring the government to intervene, my expectation is really low. If anything this is a dull affair since nobody got killed or sexually harrassed.

He did get vivid death threats though
Post reply on HN