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Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

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Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#241

Current USPTO patent examiner here. The most effective way to eliminate bad patents would be to give examiners more time, say double the time across the board to start. If an examiner can't find prior art in the little time they're given, and they have no other reasons to reject the application, they'll have to grant it. The amount of time was (basically) set in the 1970s based on data from the 1960s. There have been…

Former examiner here. Largely agree, however, you and I both know you can string together some hand-wavey 6-reference 103 if you have a gut feeling you shouldn't grant something but you haven't found any better prior art ;-)

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except it wasn't: Amazon--like everyone else filing a patent--had a duty to bring the idea to market within the time frame that US patent law required, which they then did. _That_ is the how. That's not proof of non-obviousness. And even if it were, it's still not a reason to allow 'what' patents (which the law actually doesn't allow! But they get granted anyway). > Demanding the patent goes into the specific detai…

> [1] A test for non-obviousness: does an implementor care to look at your patent or reverse-engineer your implementation, or is a description of what the invention does sufficient? This seems like a wonderful test of obviousness to me. However, the "what" could be: "A method of reducing the number of online sales that are attempted but somehow aborted". The "solution" of having a single click to purchase, in the con…

> the "what" could be: "A method of reducing the number of online sales that are attempted but somehow aborted".

That's a good point. But it does open the door to patenting so many things it would make business impossible - store layout? Ad composition? Sales timing? Employee treatment?

Fortunately the law does not seem to have such a broad view of what is patentable: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patentable_subject_matter#Unit...

The other problem is the 'could' in your hypothetical - as far as I know, that's not what Amazon put on the patent application. Probably because they knew it is not patentable subject matter.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your proposed world, shouldn't we simply get rid of patents entirely? The person who made the flash freezer, for example, was just one person. If he couldn't protect his patent, despite definitively changing the face of global food preparation, why should IBM have any intellectual property?

I don't know if abolishing patents altogether would improve innovation. But I'm pretty sure that patents on obvious things hinder innovation, rather than help it. I'm not familiar with the invention of flash freezing. Did the inventor just patent the idea of freezing food fast? That sounds like a pretty obvious idea that should not be patentable. Why give someone a monopoly on quick freezing? Or did the inventor pate…

Yeah, there's a lot of bad patents, especially in the tech sphere, where the patent office & judges lack expertise to evaluate both what's in use and what's obvious. E.g. when someone almost successfully patented the concept of a e-"shopping cart" after it was in widespread use (also it's painfully obvious).

Sources: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/how-newegg-crush...

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#244
post #79

Current USPTO patent examiner here. The most effective way to eliminate bad patents would be to give examiners more time, say double the time across the board to start. If an examiner can't find prior art in the little time they're given, and they have no other reasons to reject the application, they'll have to grant it. The amount of time was (basically) set in the 1970s based on data from the 1960s. There have been…

I have serious doubts that more examination time is the solution here - at the end of the day, the only people that have an incentive for completely thorough search are the people filing or defending themselves against the patent. And the people filing obviously make sure their language doesn't easily bring back prior art. Meanwhile you have no skin in the game at all. I would posit the better solution is curbing ove…

> And the people filing obviously make sure their language doesn't easily bring back prior art. Meanwhile you have no skin in the game at all.

You'd think so, but standard operating procedure for most patent prosecution is to intentionally not perform a prior art search. If you do find something relevant, you have to disclose it in your IDS. So let's say you pop in a few search terms into google patents, and there's ten thousand hits. You know only a few are relevant, but you don't know which few. And if you don't submit the relevant reference that was on page 99 of those search results, your patent could be invalidated in litigation some day because it could be construed that you were hiding that reference from the examiner. So you might think that you should just submit all 10k references? Wrong again, it could look like you're trying to bury some super important reference in a sea of garbage. So by opening one browser tab and typing in a couple of search terms, you've essentially shot yourself in the foot one way or another, and any patent that ever is issued from your search will have a target on it's back forever. So, most patent attorneys will ask the client for relevant references to cite in the IDS and have a standard practice to not perform any prior art searching for prosecution purposes. Patent attorneys are a paranoid bunch.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its about identifying symptoms, not being an apologist okay so you’re living paycheck to paycheck and took the risk of filing your patent with the attorney for $10,000 and arguing with the patent office a couple times for another $10,000 now you need to monetize it and other people did the thing you described after you described it everyone on the internet says “hm you should have launched a startup using more capita…

The argument is that society would be better off the the inventor licensed (or sold outright) to a company that will actually use the patent. Instead of to a NPE that exists only to sue. If an inventor just wants to sit on a patent and not produce anything based on it, they should be forced to (eventually, though I have no idea what timeframe would be optimal) release their rights.

That’s an ok argument but you know why that doesn’t happen right?

Companies get defensive at the mere suggestion of paying anything, NPE streamlines the process

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#246

I find the framing of the conversation around problems with the patent system to largely be about patent trolls quite disingenuous. This might sound controversial, but patent trolls are pretty much the only way for a "small inventor" to monetize a patent (note not invention). If say IBM violates your patent an individual or even a moderate startup or company has absolutely no chance of defending it, because IBM will…

[deleted]

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#247
> Giving Hapless Patent Owners Just 5-10%

This seems to refer to the people who got recruited to serve as owners of the patents. They are not "hapless"; they are getting a slice of the patent trolling action.

> In short, it looks like both of these witnesses signed up to be the fall guys for the assertion of these patents

Unfortunately, the article doesn't hint at what that might mean. Obviously they are inconvenienced by having to appear in court as witnesses. Do they face forfeiture of the LLC income, and penalties? Jail?

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#248
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I believe you're conflating the principal place of activity with the registered agent -- they do not have to be the same. The registered agent is responsible for getting served, receiving legal mail, and other government correspondence on behalf of the company and forwarding it along in a timely manner. This is different than a mailing address because a process server or government employee must be able to physic…

Either way, when a judge demands a physical "principal place of business", we can't answer "the cloud". When that's the actual answer. "mailing address because a process server or government employee must be able to physically walk into the premises" Yea, that would be the CEO's house if their spouse is home, maybe.

Or an actual registered agent.

Again, the registered agent does not have to be the address of any of the principals of the business. But it must be a place that is open during standard business hours and accept process notices or legal correspondence upon behalf of the business.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/what-is-a-registered-agen...

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#249
I just want to thank whoever tipped off the judge about these shenanigans. To the mole that I suspect exists within MAVEXAR, you have my thanks. I request that the mole copy all the hard drives that he/she has access to, so that the mole has leverage if caught. It would make a fine letter to your senator.

Stay safe out there.

Re: Delaware judge discovers hidden entity recruiting people to be patent trolls

#250

I find the framing of the conversation around problems with the patent system to largely be about patent trolls quite disingenuous. This might sound controversial, but patent trolls are pretty much the only way for a "small inventor" to monetize a patent (note not invention). If say IBM violates your patent an individual or even a moderate startup or company has absolutely no chance of defending it, because IBM will…

There are several errors in your analysis, while it IS accurate that "suing IBM" is difficult for a small inventor. First, patent trolls have a very simple business model (and I heard this from a former troll): - Don't even sue the real easy marks, the ones who will just write a check for $50,000 to make you go away. Just threatening them is enough. - Sue the slighter harder targets. For these, you have to actually f…

I don't understand how anything you wrote invalidates my argument. Yes, the inventor does not get the full settlement amount, but some money is still better than a lot of debt that they might end up with if going after IBM themselves.

Regarding the broadness of patents, my point is they don't advance technology or the sciences (the oft stated goal of patents), because they try to cover everything without revealing anything (a goal given to me by several patent attorneys in the patenting process). So what is their purpose?

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