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Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

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Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#241

Post by OneLeggedCat »

jrootabega wrote: post #28
highwaylights wrote: post #2

They also don’t care about locking you permanently out of your own e-Mail with no warning, for no reason, with no recourse. Honestly - there are far better options out there. They’re not in anyway a responsible enough business to manage an e-mail service. It’s run more like a hobby project than critical infrastructure.

I think it's worse than that - they are well into the stage of growth where privacy and reliability are just marketing deceptions. Some other recent data points: - They suddenly weakened a privacy setting, and even exposed some client IPs for good measure. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 - Yesterday they decided to throw up a big modal advertisement for a bulk plan at login, even to paying customers.…

That changed setting should have been a huge story. I've paid for ProtonMail for like 6 years now, and this was the most disappointing thing I've dealt with.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#242

Post by drewbeck »

twleo wrote: post #237
cryptonector wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't get it. Bridge is open source does not imply it should relies upon open-source components. It could be open source and depend on proprietary components, but then the public wouldn't be able to build and use it from source.

Proton should be responsible no matter it uses the third-party open-source/propriety components or not. If they decide to use third party libraries, that's their responsibility to review those libraries and include them to their code base. Not "it's not my fault; it's others fault"

Yeah and if it turns out there’s an obscure bug in those libraries they should write their own.

Which they are doing.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#243

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

cryptonector wrote: post #218
twleo wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components I don't get it. Bridge is open source does not imply it should relies upon open-source components. > Addressing this issue at the source requires replacing the core IMAP library. Why building an IMAP library from scratch instead of fixing/forking go-imap? Even a temporary fix to go-imap when you are developing gluon? Another repetitive work w…

> I don't get it. Bridge is open source does not imply it should relies upon open-source components. It could be open source and depend on proprietary components, but then the public wouldn't be able to build and use it from source.

In the comment from the Proton team member, they repeatedly bring up the open-source nature of Bridge as if that fact alone is an excuses the litany of bugs in Bridge. ProtonMail are selling a premium service at premium prices, and yet a catastrophic data loss bug has existed in Bridge for a while. The dev team knows about it, and nothing has been done it seem? Have users been warned? are mitigations in place? It's just wild.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#244

Post by jrootabega »

OneLeggedCat wrote: post #241
jrootabega wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worse than that - they are well into the stage of growth where privacy and reliability are just marketing deceptions. Some other recent data points: - They suddenly weakened a privacy setting, and even exposed some client IPs for good measure. - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33375424 - Yesterday they decided to throw up a big modal advertisement for a bulk plan at login, even to paying customers.…

That changed setting should have been a huge story. I've paid for ProtonMail for like 6 years now, and this was the most disappointing thing I've dealt with.

Thank you; it's frustrating that this isn't being covered more widely, but good to know that there are people who see the problem. If nothing else, don't give up trying to inform people!

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#245

Post by euroderf »

bartbutler wrote: post #213

This is Bart, Proton CTO here. For clarity, the issue mentioned here only impacts Proton Mail Bridge, our desktop IMAP/SMTP gateway to Proton Mail encrypted email. The fact that Bridge and its client can become desynchronized sporadically for some users is a high priority issue we have been working on. Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components, and the root cause is an architectural is…

Nobody else has asked it, so I will: DOES Proton Bridge work OK with mutt ?

(If so, I will make the jump from the free plan.)

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#246

Post by jrootabega »

euroderf wrote: post #245
bartbutler wrote: post #213

This is Bart, Proton CTO here. For clarity, the issue mentioned here only impacts Proton Mail Bridge, our desktop IMAP/SMTP gateway to Proton Mail encrypted email. The fact that Bridge and its client can become desynchronized sporadically for some users is a high priority issue we have been working on. Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components, and the root cause is an architectural is…

Nobody else has asked it, so I will: DOES Proton Bridge work OK with mutt ? (If so, I will make the jump from the free plan.)

I think you would experience the same problems as any IMAP client would. And seeing how this bug is being handled, it doesn't look like paying for bridge access is a good bet to make, IMO. You'll never be confident that the bridge is not going to have a problem. How many emails would you be willing to lose or have trouble with?

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#247

Post by survirtual »

cryptonector wrote: post #219
bartbutler wrote: post #213

This is Bart, Proton CTO here. For clarity, the issue mentioned here only impacts Proton Mail Bridge, our desktop IMAP/SMTP gateway to Proton Mail encrypted email. The fact that Bridge and its client can become desynchronized sporadically for some users is a high priority issue we have been working on. Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components, and the root cause is an architectural is…

The fundamental problem is that `UID`s in IMAP kinda suck because assigning persistent, unique IDs to emails in a store is a hard problem because doing that for mbox- or maildir-like stores is hard because those predated any notion of remote email access protocols. Thus in practice IMAP servers generally assign `UID`s ephemerally per-session, which means that clients can't rely on the stability of `UID`s, which means…

Why is this complex…just take a sha3 hash of the email body + timestamp, then b58 it or format any way you want. Instant uuid per email.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#248

Post by cryptonector »

survirtual wrote: post #247
cryptonector wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that `UID`s in IMAP kinda suck because assigning persistent, unique IDs to emails in a store is a hard problem because doing that for mbox- or maildir-like stores is hard because those predated any notion of remote email access protocols. Thus in practice IMAP servers generally assign `UID`s ephemerally per-session, which means that clients can't rely on the stability of `UID`s, which means…

Why is this complex…just take a sha3 hash of the email body + timestamp, then b58 it or format any way you want. Instant uuid per email.

Yes, that's what I say elsewhere. Digest some of the headers (not all) and the body. If you do it right you can even use that for dedup.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#249

Post by tacker2000 »

bartbutler wrote: post #213

This is Bart, Proton CTO here. For clarity, the issue mentioned here only impacts Proton Mail Bridge, our desktop IMAP/SMTP gateway to Proton Mail encrypted email. The fact that Bridge and its client can become desynchronized sporadically for some users is a high priority issue we have been working on. Bridge is open source, and as a result relies upon open-source components, and the root cause is an architectural is…

I think this happens to far more than just 1-2% of users, and re-synching the inbox every few weeks is nothing a paying customer should have to do.

These issues have been around since I started using bridge 3 yrs ago. So im sorry but my patience is running out soon.

I just renewed my yearly membership, but if these bugs concerning the MAIN FEATURE of proton arent taken care of in the next few months than i will be looking for alternatives.

Re: Protonmail can delete the wrong email and nobody cares

#250

Post by grammers »

rossmohax wrote: post #89
grammers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Tutanota better anyway as it has better value and is truly FOSS (app without Google push is a must for me).

I had to move off tutanota when I discovered they don't offer offline access to email. Protonmail claims to support offline access, but in every rare occasion I needed it, it wasnt working for me.

>I had to move off tutanota when I discovered they don't offer offline access to email.

They do have offline support now as far as I know.

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