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Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

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Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#241
post #212

amazon manager here: it's the same with us. our director gave told us to manage out more people this year to hit our revised headcount targets for next year. there are no layoffs, just larger-than-normal targets for managing out people. I talked with friends across various orgs and the targets seem to range between 10% to 25% for different teams (as opposed to 5% for normal years).

Yet, Amazon has over 13,000 open tech positions: https://www.amazon.jobs/en/landing_pages/tech-roles

Surprise!

In most large companies hiring and firing people are totally different, and rarely ever talk to each other. This is why in most companies if the top management wants to make a big layoff, they first let go the 'recruiting staff', and then work from there.

In smaller layoffs, I'd imagine they'd continue to fill in open positions, while eliminating positions they think they don't need.

There's also another thing where they want to fill in people where they think need for their newer/hot/important project which they think will give them better profits. And cut people/shut down projects which they think are not important/profitable.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#242
post #24

I’m not an expert at how facebook diversifies its income, but their R&D has produced a lot of insanely good outcome in engineering area. Meta ML, React, React Native, etc, howbare they not building income over these tools? Vercel or laravel seems to be making huge amount of money by building dev tools around their frameworks. Regardless of what they have done, I hope everyone affected is okay

At Facebook’s market cap, vercel and laravel are immaterial in terms of revenue. It’s very hard for a company of this size to find something to move the needle enough to make a difference. Look at Google. YouTube is worth $120 billion with a B and it is dwarfed by their ads business.

Yeah that make sense, but still a developer tooling aspect is huge and they can surely branch to cloud and other stuff as well across the stuff that they had found?

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#243
post #176

Seeing giants fall like this, where they achieve the highest peaks imaginable, but then struggle to find the next thing that is suitably big enough to satisfy expectations makes me never want to reach mega success status if I ever start a startup.

What Got You Here Won't Get You There, Marshall Goldsmith

Do Not Fight the Last War

- Robert Greene.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#244
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popularity doesn’t have any affect on how many people you need to build it.

Presumably a lot of these are content moderation staff, often much cheaper than engineers. Facebook claimed to have made good progress in the last year automating moderation, but could also just be backing off on moderation to reduce costs at increased risk of regulation. Often that kind of staff will be employed via agencies, so it's difficult to really compare between companies as we don't have the numbers. For ins…

We're specifically talking WhatsApp, there's no moderation in private messaging.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#245
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re forgetting that they also own WhatsApp, the primary mode of communication for several countries.

Apple runs a competitor for that too with iMessage so I’d call it a wash. Ditto on the AR/VR metaverse thing if macrumors is to be believed.

>> Apple runs a competitor for that too with iMessage so I’d call it a wash.

I agree, and I’m sure it’s adoption rate is increasing globally.

I’m just saying… WhatsApps global impact on an everyday basis is quite overlooked.

There are countries where people solely depend on WhatsApp to communicate externally. Todays’ green sms on an iPhone is equivalent to a WhatsApp text.

If that fallback, that Facebook controls and owns, didn’t exist or your country banned it—imagine not receiving messages from your kids because “WhatsApp is down”?

Anyways tldr; WhatsApp is cheaper than sms. The default communication for many. More affordable. More used daily as a necessity.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one new product that Facebook built from scratch (did not acquire), launched, and made a sustained success of since their original social network. The company cannot innovate and has bet the farm on their ability to innovate. I’ve said it before: Facebook should monetise WhatsApp via payments (real payments, not crypto) and other services. That’s something within their capability and very much within their reach…

So according to that logic the metaverse could succeed since it started from an acquisition (oculus), no?

hardware, to an extent - but not fully developed

software - nope, it's all new, they can't do it

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also mean creating an inhospitable environment for work, like demotion, allocating drudge work, removing responsibilities, etc. Right - it's actually far worse than outright firing or laying off people. As in, genuinely harmful to people from a psychological (and hence physical) point of view. All so the company can save a few dollars, and hit certain quarterly targets a bit sooner. That's why there's a name…

Sounds like you're suggesting to him that he gets himself put on the "managed out" list. I get your point completely, and agree with it to an extent. But if I put myself in that position, what would I do? I'd like to think I'd take the honorable approach you suggested, but I've also got bills to pay, kids to support, plans I want to achieve. Getting myself "managed out" at the expense of all of those things would be…

Consider that many other employees also have bills to pay, kids to support, plans they want to achieve...

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a massive difference between constructive dismissal and managing out. Managing out can often be as simple as a manager saying "Hey, your performance isn't great your not on course to get any bonus or raise this year" and the employee deciding "Fuck this, I'm off". Instead of in normal times, where you're trying to retain people and the conversation is often "Hey, you're making really good progress but there's…

Do I understand correctly, you are saying that 5-20% of your employees will quit after having a conversation simply noting that he or she will not be receiving a bonus or raise this year, or similar? That’s really quite tenuous, especially in this economy.

That was just one example of managing out that is clearly no where near "constructive dismissal". There are lots and lots of levers that management can pull to either reduce or increase attrition, and lots of them are about the employer choosing not to give extra support rather than taking away the basics. The normal attrition rate at an average company is already 10%, so pushing it a bit up isn't particularly difficult, especially at these big tech companies that traditionally have done a lot to try and keep people.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> do you really think that Facebook would be able to operate at this scale if they didn't have good engineers? They clearly have engineers that are good, but he questions if the engineers are better than the good engineers found at any other run-of-the-mill company. They aren't exactly performing sorcery over there, just solving problems like every other software business.

That’s beyond question and if you are asking it you’re fooling yourself. You can take a look at the output of their engineers as an example (React, Native, Cassandra). We are talking billions. Your run of the mill software company isn’t building this kind of tech. You can hate on Meta all you want. But let’s not deny the facts.

This mischaracterization of the discussion is curious, but it is certain that no two companies have the same problems in need of solving. Of course certain technologies could only emerge out of a place like Facebook. Only a place like Facebook would have a need, particularly with respect to resources, to pour R&D into these technologies to solve their particular problems.

But that's not what we're talking about. The question posed was if Facebook's good developers are better than good developers at run-of-the-mill companies. That is not clear. People at Facebook, with an average tenure of only 2.3 years, have almost certainly also worked at run-of-the-mill companies so that already suggests that you can find good developers all over the place.

That developers at Facebook solved problems Facebook had doesn't prove no other developer could also solve Facebook's problems if they also worked at Facebook. Solving problems is literally the job of a developer, so it seems highly unlikely that all other developers outside of Facebook cannot also solve problems. Of course developers are only going to solve the problems in front of them.

Re: Facebook reportedly laying off thousands of employees

#250
post #181

It’s crazy to me how Facebook has so many employees when their entire business is basically managing 3 software products (Facebook, instagram and the advertising platform). Meanwhile I think Apple has about the same number of employees if you subtract the retail Apple store workers. Yet, Apple’s business is comprised of managing, and this is only a rough guess: - 30+ hardware products and their supply chain, marketin…

Even including the retail employees, Apple's footprint is barely double the size of Facebook. I agree that it's really bizarre how wasteful FB's operations seem to be compared to Apple's. What an unimaginative company...

But it creates jobs?
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