I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95
US neocons are already celebrating it:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/who-will-rid-me-of-thi...
Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
241–250 of 330 posts
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#242Can anyone inform me why there is gas in both the pipes when they are in maintenance/not yet in use/no gas is being delivered by russia. Do they always have to be filled with gas for some reason?
Having empty pipes at the bottom of the sea would basically crush them, unless filled with either water or some high-pressure gas. It would be impossible to get rid of water later, and any other gas except an actual gas would be too complicated, so why not fill it with the thing which it is designed to transport anyway?
Understood! Does this mean that this leak will affect the whole pipe or can it be isolated? I assume it will perhaps not crush, but at least fill up with water.
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#243I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95
Why not Ukrainian?
I don't understand why wouldn't they want to perform this sabotage against their open enemies? Even openly?
I'm wondering why this didn't happen sooner.
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
It destabilizes it to the extant that if a bunch of armchair politicos on HN can reason to the conclusion "The likeliest perpetrator is the United States of America," every nation's espionage organization can certainly find that conclusion too, and possibly act on it, for the purposes of framing the US for their own political reasons. I'm reminded of the worm that was injected into NASA servers back in the '80s that…
I mean, its not like Biden didn't make the statement that he'd do exactly this. If him admitting that it was a plan isn't enough for you, I don't think your myopia is going to be altered by any further discussion.
I'm not saying the US definitely didn't do it.
I'm saying that the thing about being an armchair politico on a forum and not a member of an Alphabet Soup organization is that unless someone claims responsibility we won't know who actually did it until maybe a half-decade to a decade out when all investigations are concluded and the various international intelligence agencies and private journalists get the story straight.
They were very certain France hacked NASA until they weren't.
(Something like Biden's loose lips is only further cover for another cloak-and-dagger actor, state or private. Until and unless some country or group comes right out and claims responsibility, all manner of idea-tossing on this forum doesn't give us more than a well-shaped question mark on who actually did it).
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#245Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean.. if EU leadership was competent, they'd do the thing that USA is most afraid of.. talk to putin and make a strong europe. Realistically.. even if they found an american submarine with "pipecutters" still connected to the pipeline, they'd say they'll do everything in their power(!!!)... and then send an angry letter to USA and replace an ambassador or two somewhere.
> if EU leadership was competent, they'd do the thing that USA is most afraid of.. talk to putin and make a strong europe. Wow Just wow. Ready to place responsibility at everyone but Russia's feet right? Such a blameless third party victim in all of this /s. The pipeline itself was in good part Merkel's olive branch to connect Putin economically to the rest of the EU. The hope was that giving Russia more to lose woul…
> Russia drove its tanks into Ukraine, nobody made them
So what.. just a meaningless war in a meaningless country, a for the same reasons nato bombed yugoslavia in 1999 and noone cared.
Americans drove tanks to afghanistan, syria, libya, a bunch of eu countries helped them, nato forces are still in syria, and again... noone cares. Yes, some individuals maybe do... especially people living there... but not the EU as a whole.
But now, suddenly, while still having our soldiers station in eg. syria (i live in a small eu country, so we're not eg. france, that we'd had our soldiers occupying a bunch of african states), the media told us to sacrifice our standard of living, work, so the government can take money and send it to ukraine, to be cold, to not shower as much as we wanted, for what? A country that was just a few years ago was the most corrupt country in europe, full of nazis [0], and all the provocations were instigated by the US [1]? We should forget all this, fuck our livelihoods for some geopolitical shitshow?
Thank you, but no.
[0] https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/ukrain...
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
Directly alternative suppliers of gas will benefit, because reopening the pipelines is not an option anymore. Indirectly anyone who is interested in causing mistrust among western countries.
>Indirectly anyone who is interested in causing mistrust among western countries. My gut tells me this is the most likely answer. It would be a very Russian thing to do.
Yes, it causes mistrust. But the benefit is not big enough. Russia needs insecurity on the one hand, and a possibility to give some kind of security. By blowing up the pipes the limit the movement of the German government.
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#247Rupture of the pipes is visible on seismic recordings: https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/earthquakes/quake-info/7054...
The pipes are typically ~1000 psi. That multiplied by the entire inner volume of a rather long pipe could totally make rather a bang...
Which convinietly covers up any explosion signs...
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe just a time sensitive maintenance task that was neglected due to current state of affairs? How can you suggest this with a straight face?
Mostly since I have zero knowledge of the Nordstrom pipelines, that's why I'm wondering if there's any commonality. I assume the current mode of operation is far from the normal one, which probably brings a much higher likely chance of "edge case" malfunctions, but yeah just speculating here.
Three of the four "strings", the actual pipes making up Nord Stream 1 and 2, were damaged, and at different spots along their length.
This is absolutely sabotage.
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#249I bet my left nut that in 50 years we'll learn it was a US operation https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?t=95
We actually did do this 40 years ago. Reagan covertly blew up a Soviet gas pipeline supplying Europe in 1982, which was publicized in 2004 when the former Secretary of the Air Force boasted about it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2004/02/27/r... ( "Reagan Approved Plan to Sabotage Soviets" (2004)) - "At the time, the United States was attempting to block Western Europe from importing Soviet natural…
You left out the best part:
"The result was the most monumental non-nuclear explosion and fire ever seen from space," he recalls, adding that U.S. satellites picked up the explosion."
Also:
"When the pipeline exploded, Reed writes, the first reports caused concern in the U.S. military and at the White House. "NORAD feared a missile liftoff from a place where no rockets were known to be based," he said, referring to North American Air Defense Command. "Or perhaps it was the detonation of a small nuclear device." However, satellites did not pick up any telltale signs of a nuclear explosion.
"Before these conflicting indicators could turn into an international crisis," he added, "Gus Weiss came down the hall to tell his fellow NSC staffers not to worry."
Re: Three Nord Stream gas pipelines damaged in one day
#250Earlier quoted context omitted.
I like to shit on Russia as much as the next guy but keep in mind there is propaganda on both side and Ukraine is infinitely better at it than Russia, these aren't egg cartons, they're meant to be there: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/491788609276608574/... https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51936534258_91f5217324_b...
> these aren't egg cartons, they're meant to be there Egg cartons in place of tank reactive armour may be on a schematic. That makes it no less useless. To say the Russian military is operating with top kit denies the battlefield reality.
The "egg cartons" are spacers between explosive reactive armor places. The interesting part isn't that there are egg cartons but that there's only egg cartons - the ERA plates are missing.
My favorite story of Russians and armor plates was the dead Russian soldier who was found with his armor vest plate replaced by a stolen MacBook.