Live data from Hacker News

YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

engadget.com

241–250 of 437 posts

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#241

Long ago, tech giant CEO's realised that recommendation systems are very powerful. They can trick hundreds of millions of users into spending double digit percentages of their life watching memes. From that point on, focus was reduced on working on recommenders. Instead the goal was not to trick users into spending their whole life on the platform, but to maximize ad revenue from those users in the limited time they…

What makes you believe TikTok's goal is not to trick users into spending their whole lives on the platform?

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#242
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve recently started using yandex lately and have say I also find it refreshing. My favourite is the image search I just find it superior to other search engines.

Better than bing image search, my current go to?

Someone uses Bing?

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#243
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I watch it daily, I have never listened to any hip hop, I don't watch sports nor trending topics, yet every single day it suggests football videos, MMA, the latest hiphop hit, and celebrity crap (imagine the Kardashians) among my other interests. I don't have this experience at all. YouTube recommends me pretty much exactly what I've been recently watching. I watch a lot of long form interviews and tech videos, and…

I used to have the same experience of YouTube recommending just more of whatever I just watched, and at most recommendations would stick around for 6 weeks before it forgot about a subject. That was until earlier this year when I watched some videos from MrBallen (camp fire stories based on real events), and ever since then I have gotten my recommendations filled with crazy conspiracy stuff. It stopped recommending h…

Out of curiosity, do you watch those videos? Is that what trains the algorithm to show more of them?

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#244

The trick to improving YouTube recommendations is to regularly prune uninteresting videos and channels. Eventually this should start surfacing videos you're more likely to find interesting. I've actually hit the end of my recommendation stream on the mobile app after marking dozens of videos with Not Interested. Once this happens it starts recommending videos you've already watched or older videos from creators you'v…

Appreciate it can never happen but I'd love filtering rules for YouTube's home page. "Nothing I've watched in the last N months, nothing older than N months, nothing from the blocklist, nothing from X about Z, nothing from Y after YMD", etc.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#245
post #80

I didn’t like when they removed the dislike counts, and I still don’t like it. When I look for videos of folks working on Subarus, I don’t want to have to manually scrub through the video to gauge the quality. Before I’d just look at the ratio and if I was feeling generous I’d preview the frames to see if they had what I wanted. Now it takes me at least 2 mins longer to get to the same judgement which begs the questi…

The problem with the dislike button seems to be that nobody agrees on what it should be used for. In previous HN discussions, it's become apparent that some people use it to say "I am not interested in this video". That is of zero use to other users. The video isn't necessarily bad, it's just on a topic you don't care about. If you are instead using it to mean "this video is factually wrong" or "this video is obnoxio…

If it's a "how-to" video the dislike counter would show that this method doesn't work anymore or never worked well in the first place

Especially for software or websites, for some reason I can't find niche stuff easily on search engines, but there's an Indian guy that just tells you how to use a website. If the website doesn't work anymore I'd like to see a decreasing thumbs up ratio.

I did find a website that let me watch a video with violence in it without logging in to youtube. It looks like they just mirror the video you access from youtube. But this kind of a site will easily get shut down with some legal notice from YouTube.

I actually want a thumbs graph, to see if the video has been gaining likes or gaining dislikes recently.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#246
post #80

I didn’t like when they removed the dislike counts, and I still don’t like it. When I look for videos of folks working on Subarus, I don’t want to have to manually scrub through the video to gauge the quality. Before I’d just look at the ratio and if I was feeling generous I’d preview the frames to see if they had what I wanted. Now it takes me at least 2 mins longer to get to the same judgement which begs the questi…

The problem with the dislike button seems to be that nobody agrees on what it should be used for. In previous HN discussions, it's become apparent that some people use it to say "I am not interested in this video". That is of zero use to other users. The video isn't necessarily bad, it's just on a topic you don't care about. If you are instead using it to mean "this video is factually wrong" or "this video is obnoxio…

The not interested option already exists, it's just buried. Maybe youtube could bring that to the surface..

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#247
post #80

I didn’t like when they removed the dislike counts, and I still don’t like it. When I look for videos of folks working on Subarus, I don’t want to have to manually scrub through the video to gauge the quality. Before I’d just look at the ratio and if I was feeling generous I’d preview the frames to see if they had what I wanted. Now it takes me at least 2 mins longer to get to the same judgement which begs the questi…

I haven’t ever used the dislike button. It never functioned as a “don’t give me more of this”. I did use the “not interested” option to do so, but as others have said “dislike” is ambiguous, not to mention the opportunity for abuse.

I've used it to mark spam videos that had no real content except for music and copy/pasted text from some other source

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#248

The trick to improving YouTube recommendations is to regularly prune uninteresting videos and channels. Eventually this should start surfacing videos you're more likely to find interesting. I've actually hit the end of my recommendation stream on the mobile app after marking dozens of videos with Not Interested. Once this happens it starts recommending videos you've already watched or older videos from creators you'v…

>Some might say that you can still use search At some point Youtube search was neutered. I get 5-10 results for any given query before Youtube gives up and just offers me recommendations rather than search results. Interestingly, if I search google for [search term] site:youtube.com, I actually get pages of results which are never present in the Youtube search. Sadly, it seems that Google has intentionally diminished…

"I get 5-10 results for any given query before Youtube gives up and just offers me recommendations rather than search results."

I search from the command line using a short shell script.^1 Perhaps it depends on the query, but I consistently get more than 5-10 results. For example, I might get 26 reults with the initial query. By continuing the query repeatedly I can usually get over 1000 results total. YouTube search results are delivered as JSON so I wrote some simple, quick and dirty utilities in C to reformat the JSON to TSV with only the details I want. The workflow and example script below use those utilities, i.e., yy059, yy062 and yy064.

      # YouTube search workflow:

      # initial query
      1.sh query > results-file
      yy064  results.tsv
      # continuation
      1.sh > results-file
      yy064 > results.tsv
1. Example 14-line script using curl

      #!/bin/sh
      HOST=www.youtube.com;
      case $# in :)
      ;;0)
      KEY=AIzaSyAO_FJ2SlqU8Q4STEHLGCilw_Y9_11qcW8;
      MIN=\{\"context\":{\"client\":{\"hl\":\"en-US\",\"gl\":\"US\",\"clientName\":\"MWEB\",\"clientVersion\":\"2.20210916.06.01\"}},\"continuation\":;
      TOKEN=$(yy059|sed -n "s/$/}/;s/\"token\":/$MIN/p"|tail -1);
      URL=https://$HOST/youtubei/v1/search?key=$KEY
      curl --http1.1 -A "" -H "Content-Type: application/json" -d "$TOKEN" "$URL"
      ;;*)
      S=$(echo "$@"|sed 's/ /+/g');
      URL=https://$HOST/results?search_query=$S;
      curl --http1.1 -A "" "$URL"
      esac;  
I also have a short script that retrieves all video details for a given YouTube channel. These results are also delivered as JSON. I use search to discover interesting channels, then retrieve the full lists of videos for those channels.

Absolutely agree that YouTube search got neutered.

Re: YouTube’s ‘dislike’ barely works according to new study on recommendations

#250
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I watch it daily, I have never listened to any hip hop, I don't watch sports nor trending topics, yet every single day it suggests football videos, MMA, the latest hiphop hit, and celebrity crap (imagine the Kardashians) among my other interests. I don't have this experience at all. YouTube recommends me pretty much exactly what I've been recently watching. I watch a lot of long form interviews and tech videos, and…

I used to have the same experience of YouTube recommending just more of whatever I just watched, and at most recommendations would stick around for 6 weeks before it forgot about a subject. That was until earlier this year when I watched some videos from MrBallen (camp fire stories based on real events), and ever since then I have gotten my recommendations filled with crazy conspiracy stuff. It stopped recommending h…

Exactly the same experience here. I kinda like MrBallen's presentation and I know I can't take his stories at face value, but apparently it's so close to conspiracy stuff that it just overwhelmed my recommendations. I guess part of the problem is that conspiracy content has very high engagement among its audience, so youtube is biased towards it.

Ultimately I had to go back and scrub his videos from my history and even then it still took a lot of effort saying "not interested" to conspiracy stuff until I no longer got those suggestions.

Post reply on HN