Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

insideevs.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 267 posts

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#241

Post by garaetjjte »

drewg123 wrote: post #115
falcolas wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muscle memory is a bitch. Two things I’ve done going from a manual to an automatic, sometimes a year after: Slam on the brake as if you’re using the clutch. Automatic brake pedals are more than wide enough to accommodate two feet, and attempting to upshift and slamming on the brake instead can really rattle your brain bucket. Throw the automatic into park. Less of an issue these days, but it used to attempt to actual…

Moving from manual to power brakes is also a recipe for slamming on the brakes.. In high school, I drove a really old car with manual everything (including brakes). Our drivers ed class was taught on 80s american sedans, with overboosted power steering and brakes where you could probably just touch them with a single toe to stop. Coming from the manual brakes in my car where I needed to stand on them to stop, I'd ina…

I once had power brakes fail in my car, (vacuum line leak, rubber connections disintegrated with age, thus: no turbo and no brakes) but needed to go on 300 km trip (in hindsight, I contracted get-there-itis and this was unnecessary risk). At first: woah, I have no brakes! But after few minutes I got used that I need to stand on the pedal and it somewhat braked. But it was surprising when I finally replaced that rubber piece: obviously I knew about this, but for first few stops I slammed the brakes hard anyway.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#242

Post by chinabot »

xanathar wrote: post #182
SoftTalker wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors draw more current when starting up and when delivering high torque. It's conceivable that with a transmission, maximum current draw could be lowered, perhaps leading to longer-lived batteries or lower demand for battery cooling, smaller gauge wiring, smaller motors, or other cost savings. Don't know for sure on any of this, but it seems plausible. On the other hand, if it really made a difference, why…

I remember reading somewhere that the estimated efficiency gain of having 2 gears on the Taycan is 5%. On a typical 60kWh battery car, that's 3kWh... hardly worth the effort nor the cost. On the Taycan it makes sense because top speed. For any "normal" EV where top speed is not a concern, it's probably not a choice that makes sense.

Also people who buy manual transmissions in preference to autos rarely give a fuck about economy (this is my opinion and about every manual transmission aficionado I have ever spoken to)

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#243

Post by [deleted] »

xxs wrote: post #74
ultrarunner wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AC clocks can sync their motors to the grid frequency, making it another perfectly valid mechanism of counting time. The grid frequency is very consistent.

>The grid frequency is very consistent. This is not true. It does change a bit under heavy load and the req. to keep it constant are far from perfect. There are timers that use the AC freq. but they are far from precise compared to a quartz crystal oscillator ones. A low effort [0] stackexchange search. [0]: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/57878/how-pr...

[deleted]

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#244

Post by tomjakubowski »

chinabot wrote: post #242
xanathar wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading somewhere that the estimated efficiency gain of having 2 gears on the Taycan is 5%. On a typical 60kWh battery car, that's 3kWh... hardly worth the effort nor the cost. On the Taycan it makes sense because top speed. For any "normal" EV where top speed is not a concern, it's probably not a choice that makes sense.

Also people who buy manual transmissions in preference to autos rarely give a fuck about economy (this is my opinion and about every manual transmission aficionado I have ever spoken to)

There was a time when manual transmissions were alleged to give better fuel economy than automatics, but I think that's long gone now.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#245

Post by asdfk-12 »

Toyota Tercel SR5, VW Diesel Rabbit, Toyota Pickup, Tacoma, etc. are all enjoyable to drive with a standard (manual) transmission.

It is also a joy to be able to service and replace the clutch when required. Here's to hoping Toyota doesn't break with their history of having vehicles that are easy to work on with cheap plentiful parts available from the dealer even 30 years after it rolls off the production line.

Trying to replace a battery pack on my Nissan Leaf has been a nightmare. Rather than supporting owners, they seem to prefer you treat the vehicle as disposable, given availability, cost, and needed tools to service the EV.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#246

Post by BuckRogers »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #176
Analemma_ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors don’t need manual (or indeed, any) transmissions because they have a basically-flat torque curve across their entire RPM range. The only options for an electric motor are fake transmission or no transmission, and the parent is arguing for the latter and against “transmission cosplay”. A real manual transmission on an electric car would have no point.

Torque isn't the only consideration, there's also efficiency and acceleration. Transmission aren't a necessity like they are in ICE cars, but they can improve the experience. For instance the Porsche Taycan: "Having a multispeed transmission in an EV provides the same benefits that it does in a gasoline-powered car: improved low-speed acceleration and increased efficiency at high velocity by lowering the rotating spe…

That's also the point to the transmission. A transmission (on the low end) is to enhance acceleration and efficiency (keeping you at an ideal ratio to maintain the speed you're going). Neither of these are issues when you have a flatter torque curve.

Another comment said the efficiency gain on the Taycan is 5% over not having it. Which is about what I would've expected to see, not much for all the added complexity and reliability issues it introduces.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#247

Post by ehnto »

russellbeattie wrote: post #179
ehnto wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am absolutely a manual gearbox fan for driving experience, and that's in Aus where it's not really idolized like it is in America. A lot more manuals here. But you are dead right. I think because it lacks all of the mechanical apparatus anyway, it's not like driving a regular car in automatic, it's like driving a different kind of vehicle. So you don't miss the gearbox. All that said, I do appreciate the tendency f…

It's not idolization it's identification. Americans have a tendency to identify with what they like. You don't just like surfing, you're a surfer. This leads to odd statements like, "I drive a manual, but I'm not a manual driver or anything." After my fellow American identifies with something, then its obvious superiority comes next. It's a complex. See our current political environment for extreme examples.

That's an interesting point, perhaps that's why seemingly simple preferences can be so divisive over there. If you identify as one tribe, you necessarily are not part of the other tribe. I find that come out in online discussions a lot, an advocate for one thing is often interpreted as an attack on the other. "I like muscle cars" can be met with "what's wrong with imports?" even when you never said anything ill against them.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#248

Post by winrid »

Analemma_ wrote: post #156
itronitron wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why should manual transmissions be limited to only petroleum powered engine? Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Electric motors don’t need manual (or indeed, any) transmissions because they have a basically-flat torque curve across their entire RPM range. The only options for an electric motor are fake transmission or no transmission, and the parent is arguing for the latter and against “transmission cosplay”. A real manual transmission on an electric car would have no point.

Teslas actually do have different gearing ratios, in that for the dual motor cars the motors in the front and rear are geared differently. This is a cheap, effective way to get a good combination of acceleration and efficiency.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#249

Post by winrid »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #183
Analemma_ wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electric motors don’t need manual (or indeed, any) transmissions because they have a basically-flat torque curve across their entire RPM range. The only options for an electric motor are fake transmission or no transmission, and the parent is arguing for the latter and against “transmission cosplay”. A real manual transmission on an electric car would have no point.

Three cylinder engines have a flat torque curve. They still benefit from a transmission.

You're just thinking of small turbocharged engines, which always had a flattish torque curve if the turbo was tiny.

Re: Toyota patents plans for EV with manual transmission and clutch

#250

Post by winrid »

bluejekyll wrote: post #111
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EV Dodge Charger (car not car-charger, oh my god, what a branding screw up) To be fair, the Charger name was created long before it meant "thing you use to plug into an electric device", and the Charger is a very popular vehicle in the Dodge lineup. And you don't abandon popular models without generating negative PR. So Dodge didn't really have a choice. Plus, they can use the pun in witty commercials.

They killed the Charger brand in 1987, then reintroduced it in 2006. Fast cars are dangerous on our streets and responsible for a significant number of deaths on the road. It wouldn’t be bad if they killed the brand for society. It’s too bad that “car that gets you great mileage and helps protect kids in driveways and crosswalks” doesn’t sell.

> It’s too bad that “car that gets you great mileage and helps protect kids in driveways and crosswalks” doesn’t sell.

Those are literally the cars that sell the most. There's a reason manufacturers focus on Crossovers, and Volvo focuses on safety - it sells.

Post reply on HN