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To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

metaphysic.ai

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Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#241

Post by shubb »

deaddodo wrote: post #226
anticristi wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-driving cars are common in Europe for decades. We just use the less cool term "subway" for them. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)

Subways are common worldwide. In fact, the first (practical) one was in Boston; not in Europe. Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)

Sure, but are they self driving?

A number of european capitals seem to have managed to do driverless high capacity underground trains. Here in the UK, we've got a number of automated trains but for union reasons they still have drivers in the cab who press go at each station.

In the US, it looks like Detroit has a self driving line, and there are a bunch of airport shuttles. Presumably you are hitting the same union issues as us?

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#242

Post by panny »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #169
Strom wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a current limitation The thing with any AI/ML tech is that current limitations are always underplayed by proponents. Self-driving cars will come out next year, every year. I'd say that until the tech actually exists, this is a great way to detect live deepfakes. Not using the technique just because maybe sometime in the future it won't work isn't very sound. For an extreme opponent you may need additional s…

The only person who is promising self driving cars next year (and has done so every year for the past 5 years) is Elon Musk. Most respectable self-driving car companies are both further along than Tesla and more realistic about their timelines.

Let's not dismiss the point that self-driving cars are the "stone soup" of machine learning industry. Like the monk who claimed he could make soup with just a stone, machine learning claimed that with two cameras, two microphones, and steering/brake/accelerator control, a machine would someday soon drive just like a human can with that hardware equivalent.

Then it turned out well, we actually need a lot more cameras. Now we need high res microphones. Now we need magnets embedded in the road. Now we need highly accurate GPS maps. Now we need high power LIDAR that damages other cameras on the road. Now we need....

Each little ingredient in the soup "made only with a stone." Machine learning has utterly failed to deliver on this original promise of learning to operate a vehicle like a person, with no more sensors than a person.

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#243

Post by throwaway2037 »

Gigachad wrote: post #236
nanomonkey wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a great way to get sufficient images/video of you to create a deepfake that could pass this test. Hmmm...

My bank does a much better system where they ask for a photo of you holding your ID and a bit of paper with a number the support person gave you for authorizing larger transactions. It's still not bullet proof but since you already have to be logged in to the app to do this, I'd say it is sufficient.

Interesting anecdata! Do you think the photo is authenticated/validated automatically (by software), or by a human, or combination (assistance)?

And, if you are willing to share, what country/bank?

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#244

Post by beeboop »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #69
t_mann wrote: post #31

Omg, looking forward to Yoga-based Captchas in the future: That ain't looking like a proper downward dog to me, pal, no access for you

Please drink verification can. https://m.imgur.com/dgGvgKF

I love so much that Microsoft actually came out with an Xbox mini fridge in 2021.

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#245

Post by beeboop »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #223
nominusllc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not experience this, my system doesn't allow it

How did you configure your browser to not allow websites to hijack how scrolling works?

Possibly disabling JS, which isn't uncommon for HN users

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#246

Post by Gigachad »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #243
Gigachad wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bank does a much better system where they ask for a photo of you holding your ID and a bit of paper with a number the support person gave you for authorizing larger transactions. It's still not bullet proof but since you already have to be logged in to the app to do this, I'd say it is sufficient.

Interesting anecdata! Do you think the photo is authenticated/validated automatically (by software), or by a human, or combination (assistance)? And, if you are willing to share, what country/bank?

This case I was on the bank text support requesting to make a transaction of $100,000 in one go which the app would not let me do. So it was a real person on the other side. Bank was in Australia called Up.

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#247

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

bearjaws wrote: post #14

Serendipitously over the weekend I was thinking about a future where for key sensitive data access (e.g. production main) you may need to have a quick 5 minute call (4th factor, "3D verification") where you would be asked to turn on your camera and be asked to answer some simple question and in different positions... Main thinking was how out of control it would get, it would probably end up looking like anti-cheat s…

This is already a thing multiple vendors provide, e.g. https://www.idnow.io/products/idnow-videoident/ (used for use cases like banking and electronic contract signing)

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#248

Post by techdragon »

Gigachad wrote: post #246
throwaway2037 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting anecdata! Do you think the photo is authenticated/validated automatically (by software), or by a human, or combination (assistance)? And, if you are willing to share, what country/bank?

This case I was on the bank text support requesting to make a transaction of $100,000 in one go which the app would not let me do. So it was a real person on the other side. Bank was in Australia called Up.

This sounds like a good thing. An extra step in a $100,000 transaction to prevent accidents or crimes definitely feels justified if the accounts not marked as normally moving heaps of money like a billionaire or something.

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#249

Post by tmm84 »

sbszllr wrote: post #18

Source: I work in the field. This is a current limitation, and an artifact of the data+method but not something that should be relied upon. If we do some adversary modelling, we can find two ways to work around this: 1) actively generate and search for such data; perhaps expensive for small actors but not well equipped malicious ones. 2) wait for deep learning to catch up, e.g. by extending NERFs (neural radiance fie…

I was thinking of those two cases. Stuff like this is always a cat and mouse game.

Re: To uncover a deepfake video call, ask the caller to turn sideways

#250

Post by pooper »

pcrh wrote: post #139
WalterBright wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how good the deepfake would be for things it didn't have training data on. For example, making an extreme grimace. Or have the caller insert a ping pong ball in his cheek to continue, or pull his face with his fingers. One thing I notice with colorized movies is the color of the actor's teeth tends to flicker between grey and ivory. I wonder if there are similar artifacts with deep fakes.

Shoe on head?

This was my first thought. Ask the person to turn sideways and then put a shoe on their head. Or put a shoe on their head and then turn sideways.
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