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In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

news.yale.edu

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Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#241

Post by generj »

samatman wrote: post #183
HelloMcFly wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a doctrine that discriminating against Whites is very good and correct, because they deserve it. This is an argument put forth in bad faith. The thought - agree or disagree - is white individuals in America have systemic advantages that persist due to historical social practices the manifest across many years of education and just existence in life in America. It's not about "deserving less" but about acknowledging…

Quoted post unavailable.

This seems a rather uncharitable and combative read of the above commentator.

Where did they start lying?

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#242

Post by lliamander »

tomrod wrote: post #231
lliamander wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you clarify the distinction between libertarian and classical liberal? I know many libertarians treat these terms as synonyms, and I know there is a diversity of attitudes within the libertarian camp, but I'm not sure how they match up with what you are saying.

Classical liberalism overlaps in politics with some of the Libertarian party. The little (l) libertarians in the US are, recently in the age of Trumpism, conservatives embarrassed with the GOP as a conservative party and their support for authoritarianism/traditionalism. They adopt big (L) name, but typically aren't informed on a lot of classical liberalism thought and history. Classical liberalism is a large umbrell…

Ok, I think I follow. If I might rephrase, you are talking about the difference between philosophical libertarians vs. reflexive "don't tread on me" libertarians, correct?

> The little (l) libertarians in the US are, recently in the age of Trumpism, conservatives embarrassed with the GOP as a conservative party and their support for authoritarianism/traditionalism.

I find it interesting when people associate Trumpism with authoritarianism, when it was the pre-Trump GOP establishment that brought us a great many foreign wars and the Patriot Act.

Trump is a populist, and there's a long history of friendly relations between libertarians and populists (e.g. the Rothbard/Buchanon alliance) though I recognize many libertarians also despise populism. The Mises caucus, which is currently in control of the Libertarian party, follows in the Rothbardian strain.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#243

Post by mbg721 »

tomrod wrote: post #104
mbg721 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a conservative Supreme Court were really drunk with power, don't you think the Ivy League institutions would have changed more than this?

Without threadjacking: both things are true here, else RvW would not have been overturned as the accomplishment of an explicit political goal.

RvW wouldn't have been established except as a political goal. 1973 wasn't Eden before Original Sin.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#244

Post by al_mandi »

TameAntelope wrote: post #197
throwawayjun21 wrote: post #164

I dont know why peoplehate meritocracy but i can say one thing for sure that communities/orgs dont encourage meritocracy go down the drain. I look for the best surgeon not someone with some race to do a surgery on me.

Quoted post unavailable.

Law of large numbers. Plus, getting into medical school is not sufficient. A surgeon cannot fake his track record and experience after residency and working.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#245

Post by alsaaro »

btilly wrote: post #181
xiande04 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does Amicus entail racism and discrimination against Asians?

The lawsuit that they are filing an Amicus in was brought by an Asian-American organization for the purpose of getting Harvard to stop specifically discriminating against Asian-Americans. Therefore the brief is arguing for racism and discrimination against Asians. What is particularly galling is that the argument in the brief is defending the university's ability to pick students who have been affected by their race.…

The purpose of affirmative action policies is to help under-represented groups. Asians aren't under-represented at Yale, they are 19 percent of the student population, while only 6 percent of the American population.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#246

Post by tomrod »

mbg721 wrote: post #243
tomrod wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without threadjacking: both things are true here, else RvW would not have been overturned as the accomplishment of an explicit political goal.

RvW wouldn't have been established except as a political goal. 1973 wasn't Eden before Original Sin.

This point isn't really relevant to the identification of a "runaway Supreme court" overthrowing precedence with politically outcome-motivated reasoning.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#247

Post by tomrod »

yucky wrote: post #240
tomrod wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Got it. So we likely agree that wealth identification will be difficult here if we're only going with household income and tax returns. It's definitely a thorny process whichever factor one adopts to benchmark process outcomes against.

No, it's far easier to determine socioeconomics. After all, if you're going to favor a specific race, how do you prove their race? What percentage of their bloodlines needs to be from that race? We really start getting into yellow badge territory eventually, and at best all it does is create racial animosity and resentment, which we see now: https://news.gallup.com/poll/318851/perceptions-white-black-... Meanwhile, e…

> Meanwhile, everybody pays taxes so we have the data we need to not use racial discrimination.

Actually, the very wealthy _don't_ pay a ton in taxes, depending on how their wealth is invested and distributed.

What wealthy folks often do is to take lending against their assets, giving them liquidity. This is not taxable income.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#248

Post by rac1smb4D »

_-david-_ wrote: post #172
rac1smb4D wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black Boy, but who's more deserving on same score? The white boy

Mind explaining why the black boy is more diverse? Is race the only thing that makes somebody diverse?

> Mind explaining why the black boy is more diverse?

Because of the US History of subjugation of African Americans that includes the horrors of slavery.

> Is race the only thing that makes somebody diverse?

Nope, but is this context of elite US university, race is the only factor for diversity to undo past crimes on black people and their exclusion form only only these elite universities but all universities.

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#249

Post by nailer »

tomrod wrote: post #228
nailer wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US, race is very much tied to socioeconomic status and class. Great! So looking at socioeconomic status will also address socioeconomic status caused by racial discrimination. Glad you understand and agree with the parent.

How do you identify socioeconomic class? Tax returns? Paystubs? Accounting for wealth generally? Wealthy folks typically don't make a large wage, they receive a dividend on investments and large loans against collateral. Note that this is critical to consider if we are to discriminate based on socioeconomic class.

Council tax bracket is how we do it in the UK. Is there an American equivalent? Some kind of proxy for land value?

Re: In Supreme Court brief, Yale and peers defend use of race in admissions

#250

Post by rac1smb4D »

stdsTho8 wrote: post #226
btilly wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. It starts at kindergarten and before. Minority children should enter schools where they have a chance, with the resources to take advantage of that chance. But we don't. And here in California, blacks graduating high school on average only read as well as 8th grade blacks. Attempting to create equality of outcome after that is a lost cause. I can think of a dozen policies that would be more effective at helping b…

I wonder why reading Anglo-gibberish is a standard? Does a bridges proper engineering rely on detailed emotional understanding of Shakespeare? Human language is only 5,000 years old they say. Leaving human intuition for quantity millions of years to fine tune itself; enough food, enough heat, to prevent biological death. Nothing about human biology is fueled or relies upon grammatically correct English and everything…

^ why reading Anglo-gibberish is a standard

Because of the internet and the vast amount of knowledge accessible in English only.

Even you, who is calling it "gibberish" is forced to use it to participate in these thread.

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