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Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#241

Post by [deleted] »

Grim-444 wrote: post #201
mhneu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlikely, because many states then cut those assistance programs when given the opportunity. It's more likely that the 'state' argument is a way to achieve their ideological ends (cutting the program.) That said, this bill is a very positive development. Investing in local manufacturing and R&D is a great idea, and it will help the economy. Hopefully it will efficient and money will not be captured by rent-seekers or…

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? The state is supposed to pass laws that represent the will of its constituents. If the majority of the people living in the state are opposed to such a program, then they shouldn't have such a program. The scope of the federal government is supposed to be for coordinating cross-state stuff that states alone can't decide for themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#242

Post by munk-a »

Retric wrote: post #227
Grim-444 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? The state is supposed to pass laws that represent the will of its constituents. If the majority of the people living in the state are opposed to such a program, then they shouldn't have such a program. The scope of the federal government is supposed to be for coordinating cross-state stuff that states alone can't decide for themselves.

If we wanted local control then local towns/cities and counties would have the most power in our system. Instead things are reversed so smaller units of government have progressively less power. This makes sense because we want people to freely move around the country without encountering wildly different systems in every small town.

Also, when education funding happens on the county level we end up having wildly different standards of education depending on if your county is where rich people live or not - everyone wants to demand the best for their own children, but I think it's pretty settled that children, who don't have freedom of movement and aren't viewed as fully rationale agents, should have access to good education regardless of who their parents are and where they choose to live.

Differing county education funding was a real and evident problem when I was growing up in Massachuesettes in the 90s - some areas (like Wellesley) had extremely well funded schools due to local taxes while other areas had far too many students for the funds they collected. This, in part, lead to a whole big thing involving student busing[1] which was honestly pretty awful for the students that rode several hours to attend suburban schools - even if they did end up in a better funded district it was a cheap patch that avoided the real issue.

1. https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/04/boston...

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#243

Post by yuliyp »

Clent wrote: post #229
Grim-444 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that how it's supposed to work? The state is supposed to pass laws that represent the will of its constituents. If the majority of the people living in the state are opposed to such a program, then they shouldn't have such a program. The scope of the federal government is supposed to be for coordinating cross-state stuff that states alone can't decide for themselves.

States Government don't have the taxing power of the Federal Government. The only way to solve this equation is to drop Federal Government taxing power to as close to zero as possible and zero may not be enough as states power is likely to drop. If economics was a harder science, it would be about mathematically proofs of these possibilities.

> States Government don't have the taxing power of the Federal Government.

Sure they do (except stuff like tariffs). They just face competition from other states on how much they tax their citizens.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#244

Post by jacquesm »

fabfabfab wrote: post #213

Fab guy here. This is excellent news and much needed, but vigilence is needed to make sure it doesn't end up being devoured by crony corporate agenda and it actually results in favorouble pro-US climate for semiconductor manufacturing. I'd like to share personal experience with how we bankrupted American leadership in cutting edge nodes. Although, it is not lithography related, I was part of a few billion $ ROI progr…

It sounds to me as though that would be closing the barn after the horse has bolted.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#245

Post by beambot »

> In a 64-33 vote, the Senate passed the $280 billion “Chips and Science Act,” the final iteration of a bill that was years in the making. About $52 billion would go to microchip manufacturers to incentivize construction of domestic semiconductor fabrication plants

And the remaining $228B...?

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#246

Post by ipsin »

jedberg wrote: post #240
Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

Keep in mind that this isn't just a handout to business, but also a national security issue. Having 90% of our chips made in Taiwan means we have to spend a bunch of resources protecting Taiwan. The long term plan here is to bring this manufacturing back into the US so that we don't have to protect Taiwan anymore. (Please note I'm not stating my opinion on if this is good or bad, simply stating the end game they are…

If this were true, there would be a reduction in US military spending, but I'm... very much not buying that.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#247

Post by tablespoon »

Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

> It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that.

That's misleading framing, that's derailing discussion about this.

More accurately: there's more consensus around national security spending than social spending. The government has decided it would rather have the economy depend on large American companies for these critical components than on large Chinese companies.

And that might have follow-on effects that mean more jobs for Americans so fewer kids are poor and need subsidized school lunches.

I suppose if you're unhappy with that write your senators, and ask them to pass laws requiring purchases from the lowest-cost global supplier (e.g. not American), and use the money saved for welfare subsidies.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#248

Post by snikeris »

disintegore wrote: post #181
snikeris wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The General Market's mechanisms are always operating - even when governments like to believe they've overruled it. For guns and bombs and red tape and regulations can only obstruct a consumer's quest for what he wants; they can never destroy his insatiable desire to improve his life and enjoy greater mental well-being. The self-interest of each human being, his continual search for whatever he wants, is a natural la…

This looks like an appeal to nature, concerning a form of conduct that could just as well be conditioned in individuals. It also seems to place the government in direct opposition with the wants of consumers, without acknowledging at all the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors.

> the fact that markets are just as often made unfree by the actions of its private actors.

Example please.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#249

Post by galangalalgol »

Clubber wrote: post #217
pclmulqdq wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2013, Senator Harry Reid did it for federal judges (and not supreme court judges). At the time, McConnell told them that if they killed the filibuster for federal judges, he would kill it for supreme court justices. In 2017, he followed through on his promise, the orange fool appointed 3 justices, and now Roe v. Wade has been overturned. It would not be crazy to link the overturning of Roe to the 2013 decision of…

>In 2013, Senator Harry Reid did it for federal judges (and not supreme court judges). Yes, it was an extremely aggressive and short sighted thing for him to do. Most people don't know this story though, so it seems the Democratic Party gets a pass. Here's McConnell lambasting Reid about it in 2013. https://www.c-span.org/video/?316395-12/minority-leader-mcco... >It appears to have led to an era of unprecedented judi…

But there is likewise nothing preventing court packing right now except the concern of some democrats right? They could assign 8 more, then next time there is a swap the gop would add 16 etc. You have to go exponential by nature of the vote to account for deaths. So in as little as 116 years the whole population might be on the bench! I don't like that the macro level policy of our nation is getting decided based on rules of order and who is willing to change them. I'm not a historian, but it seems like the filibuster was already a hack around intended operation of the legislature. Time limiting it would still serve the purpose of preventing the minority from getting shut down with no chance to speak, but also prevent its abuse to require 60 votes on absolutely everything.

Re: Senate passes bipartisan bill to subsidize U.S.-made semiconductor chips

#250

Post by pastor_bob »

Someone1234 wrote: post #129

It should be noted that the US decided not to extend the universal free school meals program, because it was "too expensive" at $11B. They also stopped the expanded and early payment of family tax credits, causing a double-whammy hit to poor families (then pile on inflation/food prices, and gas prices). But $50B to large monopolistic companies isn't "too expensive," and we can afford that . Unfortunately 52 senators…

For more clarification:

The US spends $19 billion a year on free lunches for low income American children.

Universal free lunch for all would cost $30 billion a year.

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