Earlier quoted context omitted.
Occam's razor. In philosophy, a razor is a principle or rule of thumb that allows one to eliminate ("shave off") unlikely explanations for a phenomenon, or avoid unnecessary actions. In essence, they provide guardrails to keep discussions centered within the realm of reason when venturing to the edge of our knowledge and beyond.
Except it fails the deeper you go in understanding physical phenomena. We should not exist per Occam. If you can hold on your awareness that the atoms of your body are not 'matter' but signatures of energy bound in a field, then the physical brain is much harder to consider the real and constructing element of reality. I think many of these discussions are just measuring the difference in what we each perceive as the…
Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
241–250 of 311 posts
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#242How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…
This thread reminded me of Douglas Hofstadter's 'Who shoves whom around inside the careenium? OR What is the meaning of the word "I"?' https://jsomers.net/careenium.pdf
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
I concluded that, with high probability, there is life after death. Simple: 1. Current life is clearly possible (cogito ergo sum etc). 2. When this one ends, statistically it's inevitable there will be another one. See e.g. Boltzmann brain [1]. The pickle is that the timespan between 1 and 2 could be very long. But since you're not aware of it that doesn't matter. Also, the other pickle is you won't remember it, and…
That's just a copy of you though. It's not you. If I offered to teleport you to work every morning, super convenient and free, but the teleporter destroys your body and creates a new identical copy at the other end every time, would you use it? There's an SF story where someone invents a teleporter, and it becomes very popular, but then one of them goes wrong and doesn't destroy the original body.
This is kind of like the plot twist in The Prestige, great movie
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#244Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's just a copy of you though. It's not you. If I offered to teleport you to work every morning, super convenient and free, but the teleporter destroys your body and creates a new identical copy at the other end every time, would you use it? There's an SF story where someone invents a teleporter, and it becomes very popular, but then one of them goes wrong and doesn't destroy the original body.
This is kind of like the plot twist in The Prestige, great movie
Dude, spoilers!
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#245Zero tries to use silent speech interfaces for these investigations. Are they even trying?
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#246Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's important is what we do with the time we have, the ripples we send out into the world. That I think is the true value of our lives
I would like to hear more on this. Am somewhat playing a devil's advocate, but am genuinely unclear too. What's the higher importance of the impact left on the world. As per the comment you replied to, it will ultimately be multiplied to zero for each one of us. That the impact may sustain in the 'living' world feels somewhat like a propagating wave, or may be even a Ponzi scheme. Looking from a grander scheme of thi…
The only true immortality lies in the heads of others. We remember Caesar, Shakespeare, but not Elmer Demonolopos: the chimney sweep. One role of said ripple is to extend your influence from beyond the grave. affecting other's greatly (+/-) extends your influence in life and the space you take in other's heads... take enough space and you can sort of live in the mind's of humanity for as long as humanity exists.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#247Earlier quoted context omitted.
"A difference that makes no difference is no difference.'
So how would you feel if I offered to make two copies of you, but in the process your body would be instantly and painlessly destroyed. That's twice as much of you. A good deal, yes? I could offer to do the same for your children. You'd have twice as many loving kids to look after you in your old age.
Why would it be a copy and not you?
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#248Earlier quoted context omitted.
I had my first full anesthesia experience as an adult - emergency but minor surgery, so not an extremely scary ordeal. I was very distinctly trying to pay attention to the process of going under, as in: do i feel it fade? etc. I remember doing the countdown thing and also trying to see if i could notice it at all like going to sleep. but, just like an off switch, no state change, just a full stop (but without somethi…
>But as another comment put it, I can only imagine death being similar (if instant/unexpected/while sleeping/etc), just without the coming back. Which is scarier. You can't imagine it, because it lacks time. There's nothing to imagine.
I guess I was unclear - i was referring to the "just disappearing and not even knowing it" part more than the experience of something lapsing whilst you are unaware.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#249Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think my use of the word 'negatively' has caused a confusion. Sorry about that. What I am asking is about your comparison below. You have experienced anesthesia but not death, then how do you say the following? >> So I'm going to say anesthesia is not like being dead. ...
I anesthetized myself to the point of complete blackout for 24 hours I walked to the store and purchased things Dead people don't walk to the store and purchase things Therefore being anesthetized is not like being dead
Of course.
We are intending to compare only the first part, i.e., going into the period of blackout. The original commentator's [1] is claiming that the experience of death is similar to the experience of going into blackout with anesthesia. And then, for the latter, the person comes back with partial memories of that going-into phase. Hence the original commentator claims that the experience of death has already been witnessed by many alive people.
I am trying to understand your claim that these these two situations are different.
Re: Under anesthesia, where do our minds go?
#250How to approach loss of consciousness is one of the problems I have with non-materialist theories of consciousness like dualism and panpsychism. If consciousness is not generated by my physical brain, how come physical chemicals can manipulate my conscious state? If the brain is a receiver for consciousness, surely my consciousness should exist independently of my brain? Interfering with a radio doesn’t change what’s…
Pick 3 random stones and arrange them so that they form a straight line. Does the line "exist"? If you consider that only the atoms "count" for existing, then the line does not exist. (Neither do the stones, by the way - since they are constantly exchanging minor quantities of atoms and electrons with the rest of the environment, the set that defines what each stone is is constantly changing. But let's ignore that bi…
You can play with the meaning of words, but in the end I don't care how you call things or how you define existence. You get funny results like dragons and elves existing, whatever, suit yourself. I just care about how the world actually works and not what labels we put on it.
So if consciousness exists in the same manner that imaginary lines you draw between stars - fine. Why does it matter?