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FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

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Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#241

Post by cloutchaser »

hnlmorg wrote: post #116
moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

Well in that case I hope you don't moan when the EU places heavy restrictions on the data harvesting that American companies do. I get the paranoia around China, I honestly do. I'm not at all unsupportive of the Chinese regime either. But this "one rule for us another for them" principle really needs to stop.

>I get the paranoia around China, I honestly do. I'm not at all unsupportive of the Chinese regime either. But this "one rule for us another for them" principle really needs to stop.

Because they don't operate under the same rules. Tiktok isn't some free market startup at this point. Their CEO is ex Xiami and clearly a party member. I would bet a lot of money the CCP is putting unlimited resources into spreading Tiktok and harvesting data, plus manipulating sentiment of tiktok users.

This is NOT what US based companies do. They don't have government resources, and they sell ads. And the US government doesn't give a shit if snapchat or whoever else destroys facebook. They are not going to bail them out, or help them.

So it's not the same, it's not a fair fight, and in the background what the data is used for is probably completely different.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#242

Post by supermatt »

drstewart wrote: post #124
johnywalks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The audacity of the US. They literally spy and collect data from the whole internet - not just US citizens, EVERYONE! Data collection aside - relying on a single Appstore that is governed by US law is not acceptable.

Don't forget the audacity of the EU, who try to fine US companies for data collection but then spy on their citizens and the internet! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/11/french-officia... https://phys.org/news/2018-05-german-spy-agency-tabs-interne... https://www.thelocal.de/20200519/court-slams-german-spies-fo... https://www.thetrumpet.com/17338-germany-can-legally-spy-on-... https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/…

The EU also fines companies in its own members countries for the same offenses...

If anything, given that the fines are largely based on scope of offense and capped at a percentage of turnover, the larger US companies have been getting off lightly compared to smaller companies given their settlements..

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#243

Post by pavlov »

waffleiron wrote: post #232
pavlov wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We must not do anything about recent thing that is very bad and unpredictable because of this other thing which is also quite bad but we’ve been learning to manage it for 15 years”

However instead of regulating everyone, banning one player and leaving the opportunity for others (including new players) to continue "bad thing" is not a good solution, is it?

Meta is already extremely regulated, both by governments and externally managed processes like the oversight board. If TikTok were an American corporation that played by the same rules, it would be a massive improvement.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#244

Post by drstewart »

Bewelge wrote: post #226
drstewart wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the audacity of the EU, who try to fine US companies for data collection but then spy on their citizens and the internet! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/11/french-officia... https://phys.org/news/2018-05-german-spy-agency-tabs-interne... https://www.thelocal.de/20200519/court-slams-german-spies-fo... https://www.thetrumpet.com/17338-germany-can-legally-spy-on-... https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/…

Not that I condone secret services collecting data in the way they do, but you're confusing state agencies collecting data with private companies collecting data. And while I do think that state agencies nowadays have crossed most lines of what may be be deemed acceptable it should still be clear that in some cases it's necessary for a government to have the authority to do things a normal citizen doesn't (eg you're…

>but you're confusing state agencies collecting data with private companies collecting data.

I'm sorry, was I the one that mentioned that the US is a hypocrite because the STATE spies on the internet? I think you're confusing my post with the one that I responded to.

>Despite all its faults, concerning spying and data-collection, the EU is likely the smallest offender out of the big players in this world.

So they're just small hypocrites instead of big ones?

>whataboutism to defend one nation and bash another

Who's defending who? If the US are hypocrites, then so are the EU. Both are spying hypocrites. The whataboutists are the ones that rush to defend Europe because they view it as a utopian ideal.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#245

Post by cudgy »

jpk wrote: post #210
cudgy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. Put a stop to TikTok and allow US companies to vacuum up our data. China then hacks those companies servers or installs agents within the companies and gets the data anyway. Security threat not avoided. None of these companies should be allowed to store and abuse the sensitive information people divulge when using many of these services.

Again, I agree, "We want corps to stop hoovering up our data because they can use it to manipulate us with advertising, and they can mishandle it such that _other bad actors can exploit it_." My point is, if finding the political will required to stop TikTok is easier than it is to regulate data collection more generally, we shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Yes, we are in agreement. I was responding to the comment “But I think TikTok's specific case warrants additional concern because it's all that, plus …”. My point is that they are all a concern and plugging a few holes in the privacy dam will not prevent China from getting the data. I’d be very surprised if China does not already have 100’s even 1000’s of agents working in US tech companies like Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Furthermore, almost all of the devices and many of the chips we use to run apps are built in China. Why is the FCC not concerned about that?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#246

Post by roberttod »

janekm wrote: post #92
jpk wrote: post #33

Lots of folks here arguing that the focus on TikTok is unfair, given the data collection practices of domestic corps like Facebook. From a privacy point of view, this argument is well-founded, but I think it's tangential to the argument TFA is making, which is: this data collection done by a foreign government and exploited for surveillance or espionage is a national security risk. I get it. We want corps to stop hoo…

I actually think it's naive. Sure if military personnel or state department use TikTok that can create security risks, but the same is true with any other social media network. The additional data that TikTok tries to gather from the mobile OSs is insignificant compared to what you can get from videos that people take willingly. Russian soldiers use VK, that doesn't stop OSINT researchers tracking them down on there.

Military personnel is not what this is about, it's about the data of all the citizens in the US. It's about manipulating public opinion, sowing divide or a thousand other options.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#247

Post by bakugo »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #135
moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

> so I want USA to do whatever it needs to be the top player I would argue that admitting that the only way to convince Chinese apps to not track American users is to ban them (mostly because it's eating their own dog food with TikTok that's nowadays much more popular than America's own spying apps) doesn't sound much top dog, more like small dog barking at the big one.

> TikTok that's nowadays much more popular than America's own spying apps

America's spying "apps" aren't "apps", they're called operating systems and firmwares.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#248

Post by NullPrefix »

david_allison wrote: post #147
XiS wrote: post #26

"TikTok is said to collect “everything”, from search and browsing histories; keystroke patterns; biometric identifiers—including faceprints" How can they even collect browsing history or biometric identifiers on Android? Isn't browser history stored in the browser's private storage space, or am I being naive here?

Very unlikely to be accurate. If it was, TikTok wouldn't be on the app stores. * Browsing history: If a user uses a WebView in your app, you can obtain the history of* that WebView instance. Xiaomi phones let applications have access to the first (100?) bytes of each pcap line. [note: this is probably unintended, but their bug bounty programme didn't care]. * Keystroke patterns: You can track user keystrokes within y…

>Xiaomi phones let applications have access to the first (100?) bytes of each pcap line

What is pcap line?

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#249

Post by Schroedingersat »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #159

This seems an intractable mess. - Our phone hardware and operating systems are intrinsically insecure. - There is no practical/effective data gathering regulation (and I'm not sure it's possible to craft any without destroying innovation) - All social media companies are doing it, leading to jeers of "hypocrisy!" - All governments play the same games, reducing the arguments to "Whose side are you on?" That's effectiv…

> There is no practical/effective data gathering regulation (and I'm not sure it's possible to craft any without destroying innovation)

Yes there is: Don't

Anything that is not fully and obviously intentionally completely public is e2ee and inaccessible outside of the user's device. Information that is provably necessary for providing a paid service can be collected and kept until the second it is no longer necessary so long as the process is publicly documented. Any weights, faux anonymized data or similar derived from the pii must also be deleted.

Re: FCC: TikTok is unacceptable security risk and should be removed from app stores

#250

Post by hjkl0 »

tuxie_ wrote: post #134
moomoo11 wrote: post #42

Of course not. Every government is going to look out for themselves. Following your reasoning, look at China. They have their own playbook for operating within China, and it is quite restrictive. They make it harder for foreign entities to do business within China. From a geopolitical viewpoint this makes complete sense. You don't want your rival to have a backdoor into influencing/manipulating/discovering how people…

Do you understand that your own government has even more power over you than a foreign one? It's in your best interest that no government collects this kind of data about you.

But don’t forget that you also have much more power over your government than a foreign one.
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