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Scratch is a big deal

bryanbraun.com

241–250 of 306 posts

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#241

I can't get my son to get excited with Scratch :( Every time we open RPi, and I start opening Scratch, he will say, "Daddy, how about we do this" while taking over the mouse and opening a game. When I'm not looking he'll open Chrome and play YouTube. To be fair, once we're in Scratch, I don't even know what to do with it.

Try the Minecraft Education Edition coding tools (uses Make:code, which is much like scratch, but a lot higher ceiling). There's other cool make:code options too, or there's straight minecraft command mode...

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#242
There's a similar project at MIT call App Inventor http://www.appinventor.mit.edu/ which uses a graphical Scratch-like environment to build Android apps. I can't tell if the two projects share code, but they certainly share philosophy and approach.

I found App Inventor actually quite a practical way to write small useful Android apps. Certainly better than loading squigabytes of IDE/library/emulator/etc and fighting with the Android build system. (This from someone with plenty of code-cutting history!)

I wouldn't use App Inventor for anything big, but for small projects, have a look.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#243

I like Scratch - my kid uses it and I worked briefly with the guy who made Blockly, the underlying visual programming toolkit - but the programming environment makes many things far too complicated with its singular focus on sprites. It's very, very difficult to do things as simple as display a number on screen. My 7yo was making a number guessing game, and to display a two-digit number we had to make two sprites tha…

I agree, my 7 year old is into maths at the moment and he found it easier to just use PHP to do basic maths.

I sat down with him for about an hour and I printed a "cheat sheet" for the various arithmetic operators (just the basic ones) and he's now quite able to just whack a simple script together and execute it on the command line.

Having said that, he wasn't entering the situation completely blind. He's been using a PC with Linux (Ubuntu) since he was 3 years old. He's been playing Minecraft for 4 years (which is excellent for younger kids to learn mouse skills).

I also started him out on GCompris on a laptop. Then we both built a PC for him when he was 5. I got a load of cheap second parts during the early part of the pandemic and I let him do it himself (while observing and guiding).

I started him early because I started early too and I started him off on PHP because I remember it being relatively easy to learn when I was a kid because it isn't a particularly strict language which means a young mind doesn't have to perform a huge amount of translation in their own head, they can almost type exactly what they're thinking and run it.

The command line I introduced almost immediately. It was a way easier method of teaching him to launch apps without my help...I just set the terminal to load on startup and printed him another "cheatsheet" of basic stuff that he needed (no rm -rf * just yet).

If he's in an exploratory mood he will use the menus and UI but if he just wants to get straight into Minecraft or write a script he can just get stuck in!

I can see scratch becoming more interesting to him further down the line but for now, certain things are easy enough.

Typing is an interesting one though...I spent a fair bit of time working on his typing because his handwriting at school wasn't up to par (he's fine now, but his crap handwriting was holding his spelling back a bit). As soon as he became somewhat proficient at typing his spelling improved no end. Unfortunately though, his teacher won't let him do spelling tests on a laptop. Which I think in 2022 is the dumbest thing ever. They've only just started teaching typing and basic computer skills in his class (as of about 6 mo this ago). I had his teacher take me aside and ask me exactly what the hell I did to get him so far ahead. They measured his typing speed at 60wpm!

This all said though, I am an IT guy...so parents with little to no tech skills might not have the smooth ride I had, which is probably where tools like scratch come in...I think it's a tool for non-technical parents as well as kids.

Before scratch though, I'd highly recommend GCompris...but be warned, you need to do it short sessions (20 minutes or so) because kids get bored of it fast.

My youngest is 3 and he's getting second knowledge from my oldest right now as well as the same stuff I did with my oldest...so maybe he'll learn even quicker?? We'll have to wait and see.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#245

I can't get my son to get excited with Scratch :( Every time we open RPi, and I start opening Scratch, he will say, "Daddy, how about we do this" while taking over the mouse and opening a game. When I'm not looking he'll open Chrome and play YouTube. To be fair, once we're in Scratch, I don't even know what to do with it.

I am not a parent, by I think there are kids that are interested in computers and programming, and kids that are not. That's the divide between users and makers. That does not mean they can't be creative with something else.

So it's a good thing to try to show them how the magic happens, but being too persistent is pointless.

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#246

I like Scratch - my kid uses it and I worked briefly with the guy who made Blockly, the underlying visual programming toolkit - but the programming environment makes many things far too complicated with its singular focus on sprites. It's very, very difficult to do things as simple as display a number on screen. My 7yo was making a number guessing game, and to display a two-digit number we had to make two sprites tha…

Since it is from the constructionist tradition, I believe it is intended as a "microworld" [1] so being powerful and general purpose is an anti-goal. It is optimized for trial-and-error exploration, which works best when the functionality is reduced and there are not too many tools in the shed.

Producing text and formatting strings is likely deemed out of scope for that reason. People figuring out clever workarounds is a bonus!

1: https://edutechwiki.unige.ch/en/Microworld

edit: better link

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#247
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think there are so many other forms of distraction today. Young kids are carrying around cell phones, texting their friends. It’s that or they are doing something on Tiktok. They don’t have time to hack like that anymore.

Yes true for most people ( I am 13, Started programming in Java with 10 ) but some also do this other stuff. Like I installed ubports on my second phone today ( Writing this on it )

Never heard of ubports. Looks interesting. A 40 year old just learned something from a 13 year old. If this is how you're spending your free time, then you have a bright future ahead of you. Keep it up!

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#248
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think there are so many other forms of distraction today. Young kids are carrying around cell phones, texting their friends. It’s that or they are doing something on Tiktok. They don’t have time to hack like that anymore.

Yes true for most people ( I am 13, Started programming in Java with 10 ) but some also do this other stuff. Like I installed ubports on my second phone today ( Writing this on it )

postmarket OS is also fun, and a bit more Linuxy...

Re: Scratch is a big deal

#249

I like Scratch - my kid uses it and I worked briefly with the guy who made Blockly, the underlying visual programming toolkit - but the programming environment makes many things far too complicated with its singular focus on sprites. It's very, very difficult to do things as simple as display a number on screen. My 7yo was making a number guessing game, and to display a two-digit number we had to make two sprites tha…

Look I was teaching myself Z80 machine code on a ZX-Spectrum when I was 11. No internet to help me out and nobody I knew could help me. Just one book. And yet I learned how to hand compile Z80 assembler to machine code and make fun little games. So don’t underestimate the capabilities of kids to solve hard problems :)

That's different. You were learning from first principles, using the lowest level primitives, and how putting them together made it possible to do an almost infinite number of things. That is powerful and intoxicating.

With Scratch you are given a limited set of blocks that are designed for a limited set of solutions. It is at the same time not particularly powerful nor does it feel like you can grow your solutions to anything you have in mind.

I have three kids and have taught (or attempted to teach) each of them programming. I started with Scratch every time, but it never piqued their interest, although they understood it. I have since started them on Javascript from the very basics (Khan academy) and they are very curious about each new lesson and the weird powers it brings. YMMV but people should not assume Scratch or Mindstorms and so on are necessarily better learning environments, just because they are 'friendly' - it can be quite the contrary.

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