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Why does science news suck so much?

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241–250 of 285 posts

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#241
post #239

A friend of mine worked for a mainstream European science news website. Most journalists had no science background, and were pressured into writing 4 articles a day. The result of course, was low quality articles and hastily copied press releases with no critical thinking. They believed everything corporations said, because they had no time to check. I don't blame the journalists, but the work conditions and economic…

>"Another problem with sources is that science news also frequently just repeats press releases without actually saying where they got their information from. It’s a problem because university press releases aren’t exactly unbiased." This is probably why exaggerated claims from press releases usually just get passed on and, frequently, exaggerated. Even someone educated in the field doesn't have time to dig into 3 or…

And those press releases are often written by university PR offices without a clear understanding of the research they're promoting, and the articles repeating those press releases frequently get copied poorly by other science publications. It's a game of telephone all the way down.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#242
post #84

A friend of mine worked for a mainstream European science news website. Most journalists had no science background, and were pressured into writing 4 articles a day. The result of course, was low quality articles and hastily copied press releases with no critical thinking. They believed everything corporations said, because they had no time to check. I don't blame the journalists, but the work conditions and economic…

Exactly this. It is all about click bait to drive digital advertising. It is largely our own fault. We (by and large) don't want to pay good journalism. We want it to be free which means ads. NPR/PBS tends to have better and more balanced news but it is largely because of their donor/patron model. But to be clear, they are surely not immune. They are still run by people who are judged by views and reach and other eye…

There's a bunch of millionaires who have broken off from legacy news to make written and/or podcast style news content. We're willing to pay for quality work, but the legacy news isn't creating it.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly this. It is all about click bait to drive digital advertising. It is largely our own fault. We (by and large) don't want to pay good journalism. I'm not buying it. Science reporting from university press departments is just as bad if not worse, and they are funded by the university not advertising (tuition, grants, alumni donations, etc..)

This is not a proof. In logic, you can't say A and C => D is wrong just because B and C => D is wrong. An example, "My uncle became blind because of diabetes", similar answer: "I don't buy it, my father is diabetic and never got blind". Doesn't work. In other words, the reason why scientific journalism in non-university press could be bad for various different reason than university press.

Well first off, this is an informal discussion. Secondly:

> It is ALL about click bait to drive digital advertising

(Emphasis my own.) Science reporting is still crap even when it isn't funded by advertising, so there's obviously more going on than the funding model making things shit. The BBC and CBC both have crappy science reporting too, as do university press departments. These counter-examples refute the claim which was stated too strongly (I do think advertising plays some role in it, but obviously not all.)

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#245
post #4

I would risk to say that nowadays any news suck which implies that it’s not a problem of science but journalism in general.

It probably always sucked but it was our only source of information before so we didn't know better

People have been saying the same about journalism for decades, long before the Internet.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#246

Is it because so much science is now theoretical or niche, with little practical application?

I think the focus on 'practical application' is an attempt to analyze the problem of the challenge of communicating science, but it's a red herring. What's the practical application of discovering Pluto or black holes? Walking on the moon - maybe in decades, but now it has no practical effect.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#247
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Lord Kelvin thought. Then Roentgen discovered X-rays.

So how many such findings per year we are currently producing?

Judging by the output of the scientists I follow on YouTube because they also explain things for outsiders (and that I only subscribe to a few specific domains of science), at least dozens.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#248
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Lord Kelvin thought. Then Roentgen discovered X-rays.

So how many such findings per year we are currently producing?

there is a lot of space between fields as it is hard enough to do one.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#249
> Why does science news suck so much?

Gee, back some weeks ago at

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31463927

I presented my opinion:

"... the worst bottleneck in civilization, bad documentation of computer hard/software, ... "

And my opinion would be similar on nearly all less important topics, that is, not really bottlenecks for civilization.

Long my usual summary view has been that the MSM (mainstream media) has some traditions: Create narratives as in E. Bernays. Repeat those narratives as in Nazi Minister of Propaganda Dr. J. Goebbels and his famous

"If you tell a lie often enough people will believe it.".

Then have the media outlets gang up, pile on, form a mob, and repeat the most recently selected narratives over and over. Do this with deceptive "click bait" headlines to get eyeballs for ad revenue and, maybe, to push some specific political agenda. A little more generally, have the writing borrow from formula fiction and belle lettre, that is, with my view of such literature, create VEFEEE -- vicarious escapist fantasy experience emotional entertainment.

The technique is to grab people by the heart, the gut, and below the belt, always below the shoulders, nearly never between the ears.

Missing are, say, the standards of common high school term papers with careful quotes of credible, hopefully primary references, etc.

Also usually missing is a goal of providing objective, credible information as needed by an informed electorate or credible information for any purpose, science, cooking, parenting, software development, much more in careers, finance, ....

Also nearly totally missing is credible, meaningful presentations of quantitative data, e.g., statistical hypothesis tests with stated probabilities of Type I and Type II errors. Actually, far simpler than hypothesis tests, the media commonly is unable even to report percentages carefully. E.g., instead we get some

"up 7.60%"

without since when, measured how, by whom, reported where? And, why is this not just some case of cherry picking? What about corrections for inflation? What about over more points in time than just two? What about causes?

While generally I'm outraged at the writing and content in the media, apparently some people like it. So, my condemnations have to be just my own opinions.

E.g., my standard remark about the NYT and WaPo is that

"On paper they can't compete with Charmin and on the Internet are useless for wrapping dead fish heads."

but lots of people like the NYT and WaPo and disagree with me.

Maybe due to bad writing lots of old media outlets are losing readers and, thus, ad revenues and are on the way to massive change or just out of business, now to be replaced by new media on the Internet, media that gets to save on ink and paper. Maybe. I can wish but can't be very confident.

Let's give the Internet and its new media a few more years and see if some greater variety of content sprouts up from the landscape.

Re: Why does science news suck so much?

#250

Because science is reaaaally hard to generalise for the public, and Universities love to put out press releases. Finding someone qualified to go to for comment is not straightforward. They’re not necessarily even going to be in your country. I’m a physicist by background and even when active in academia it was hard for me to understand some papers in closely related sub fields, and that was with working experience in…

I have no problem reading most scientific papers I encounter, at least to a certain level. I almost never check the numbers, and can skim over things that I just don't understand - a luxury of not needing to understand every detail professionally.

I'm not trying to one-up you; I'm sure you have far more capacity to understand papers in adjacent subfields to yours, and probably in other fields. I'm wondering what the difference is between our experiences.

I find scientific papers easier to read than most news articles - much more clear, informed (of course), they ask and address much better questions - and generally don't skip the obvious ones that I think of. The graphics in papers are so much better than in news articles, I wonder where scientists get such good training in visual presentation. Mostly I read papers in Nature, Science, or more highly-cited ones I find through Google Scholar. Maybe that population skews toward better writing.

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