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Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

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Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#241

Post by slg »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #232
ceejayoz wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raising money to support violence against conservatives Let's be clear; the title was "Always Punch Nazis", not "Always Punch Conservatives". If you're mixing the two up, that's more on you than the author.

The entire comic is predicated on a meme coming out rioting at UC Berkeley when Milo Yiannopoulos was scheduled to speak on campus It is a reference to a tweet from writer Mike Monteiro, who declared “It’s ok to punch nazis AND white male libertarians who wanna talk about free speech.” It is not about literal German Nazis, It is about attributing the title of Nazi to US conservatives and validating physical violence.

Equating people criticizing folks like Milo Yiannopoulos and Richard Spencer as people criticizing "US conservatives" says more about you and the Republican Party then the people doing the criticizing. These are not mainstream conservative people. They do not have mainstream conservative values. These are people who support extreme right wing policies including at times fascist policies. Basically every mainstream platform has kicked these people off for their abhorrent behavior. Holding them up as a representative of "US conservatives" is an insult to any reasonable-minded conservative.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#242

Post by granshaw »

bjornsing wrote: post #86
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #81

Good for them! It'd be nice to see a software engineering guild emerge in the coming years. Think about the benefits we could accrue; I for one would strongly prefer a real pension to a 401K.

Oh yea? You can have mine, if you give me your 401k. (It’s like $20k per year, and you’ll pay taxes on that when the day comes. You may have to move to Sweden to survive on it.)

Many pensions are based on a percentage of the persons salary at a point in time, so no, it’s not always “20k a year”

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#243

Post by cuteboy19 »

claytonjy wrote: post #195
Xeoncross wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Removing my skills or value proposition from the equation sounds very dangerous. This sounds like giving power to bean counters and exalting mediocrity. When I want 'better', I work for it and get it myself, not by schmoozing the union bosses to get on their good side or paying union fees for 20 years to build up tenure.

Unionization doesn't mean removing your value proposition from the equation. There are still different title tiers with different pay, and variance in pay within a given band. I would hope a tech worker union is less tenure-oriented than a union like the UAW but I acknowledge that is tricky to implement and not guaranteed. If you are vastly more productive than coworkers in the same title band and wish to capture mor…

With most unions, pay is a function of seniority only.

I think most of these tech-unions are ideologically motivated and have no interest in actually improving working conditions.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#245

Post by s1artibartfast »

slg wrote: post #241
s1artibartfast wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire comic is predicated on a meme coming out rioting at UC Berkeley when Milo Yiannopoulos was scheduled to speak on campus It is a reference to a tweet from writer Mike Monteiro, who declared “It’s ok to punch nazis AND white male libertarians who wanna talk about free speech.” It is not about literal German Nazis, It is about attributing the title of Nazi to US conservatives and validating physical violence.

Equating people criticizing folks like Milo Yiannopoulos and Richard Spencer as people criticizing "US conservatives" says more about you and the Republican Party then the people doing the criticizing. These are not mainstream conservative people. They do not have mainstream conservative values. These are people who support extreme right wing policies including at times fascist policies. Basically every mainstream pl…

I didn't say that milo ect were typical or that I agree with them.

I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence.

I don't agree with the idea that you get to punch someone in the face if you disagree with them, even if you label them as a fascist

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#246

Post by ceejayoz »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #245
slg wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating people criticizing folks like Milo Yiannopoulos and Richard Spencer as people criticizing "US conservatives" says more about you and the Republican Party then the people doing the criticizing. These are not mainstream conservative people. They do not have mainstream conservative values. These are people who support extreme right wing policies including at times fascist policies. Basically every mainstream pl…

I didn't say that milo ect were typical or that I agree with them. I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence. I don't agree with the idea that you get to punch someone in the face if you disagree with them, even if you label them as a fascist

The argument is, in part, "these people [fascists] don't play by the rules, and will obliterate you if given the chance". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

I think most folks would agree that at some point Hitler's Third Reich could be opposed by force, but I think folks would struggle at exactly when to draw the "ok, it became OK to punch Hitler's brownshirts" line.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#247

Post by thinkingemote »

native_samples wrote: post #149
gnicholas wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you link to details about this?

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

The other sibling comments in reply to this comment emphasise the central point that it was about culture war and that therefore it's not surprising that many employees don't want to take part on one side or the other!

The comments are literally just rehashing a conflict. Would anyone want to work in a place where such a discussion was part of daily working life?

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#248

Post by s1artibartfast »

ceejayoz wrote: post #246
s1artibartfast wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that milo ect were typical or that I agree with them. I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence. I don't agree with the idea that you get to punch someone in the face if you disagree with them, even if you label them as a fascist

The argument is, in part, "these people [fascists] don't play by the rules, and will obliterate you if given the chance". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance I think most folks would agree that at some point Hitler's Third Reich could be opposed by force, but I think folks would struggle at exactly when to draw the "ok, it became OK to punch Hitler's brownshirts" line.

I don't think it as clear cut as you claim. There are many political and psychology thinkers who hold that extrajudicial violence is usually counter productive.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#249

Post by slg »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #245
slg wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equating people criticizing folks like Milo Yiannopoulos and Richard Spencer as people criticizing "US conservatives" says more about you and the Republican Party then the people doing the criticizing. These are not mainstream conservative people. They do not have mainstream conservative values. These are people who support extreme right wing policies including at times fascist policies. Basically every mainstream pl…

I didn't say that milo ect were typical or that I agree with them. I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence. I don't agree with the idea that you get to punch someone in the face if you disagree with them, even if you label them as a fascist

> I said that the idea was about labeling conservatives in general as nazis and justifying violence.

But these aren’t “conservatives in general”. These are people who are at the very least fascist sympathizers. No one serious is calling Mitt Romney a nazi.

Re: Kickstarter Union voted 97.6% to ratify one of the first tech union contracts

#250

Post by gorwell »

slg wrote: post #205
native_samples wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that the event that, uh, kickstarted their drive for unionization was the site's management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words). The details are a bit fuzzy now but iirc some of the hard-left employees didn't like the ToS being enforced in that case, because whilst they accepted the project was calling for viol…

>management banning a project that was raising money to support violence against conservatives (the actual physical kind, not words) What? The article you linked says this is about a comic book about punching Nazis. How is this "not words" ? We are seriously getting angry at comic books about punching Nazis? Captain America comics have been doing that for 80 years. Is there more to the story that I am missing or are…

Here's what the book says,

"Sometimes they're called Nazis. Other times, they're the far-right or alt-right. White Nationalists. No matter the name, hateful groups are spewing vile, racist, anti-immigrant, anti-POC, anti-LGBTQ+, anti-anything-but-white-Christian-views ideologies.

SCREW THAT.

ALWAYS PUNCH NAZIS".

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