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Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

blog.thunderbird.net

241–250 of 296 posts

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What basis is there for your accusations? These aren't companies. It's a communty project and a FOSS project merging resources.

>What basis is there for your accusations? History >These aren't companies. It's a communty project and a FOSS project merging resources. Exactly how other situations historically have started. Lot's of FOSS projects "brought into the fold" to "shepard" along only to not get the resources promised.

>> What basis is there for your accusations?

> History

That's all you have? They are baseless then.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thunderbird isn't acquiring K-9 to kill it or merge with an additional product, they're buying it so they can THunderbird is buying or acquiring K-9? Isn't K-9 FOSS? The OP says only, K-9 Mail officially joins the Thunderbird family (unless I overlooked something).

It's an acqui-hire. From the announcement: > And cketti [lead dev] has already joined the full-time Thunderbird staff, bringing along his valuable expertise and experience with mobile platforms. [...] To accomplish that, we’ll devote finances and development time to continually improving K-9 Mail.

Where does it say it's an acquistion?

Acqui-hires generally discard the acquired organization's product; where does it say Thunderbird is doing that? It looks like they are embracing it.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#243
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely there is a space for minimalist office suites and email clients, written starting with a browser as a jumping off point, rather than a compiler? As a user, I'd prefer a minimalist office suite that still doesn't have the browser as a starting point. I think a browser is actually not a good UI for an office programs, because it really awkwardly competes with your own document model: HTML at its core still wan…

It is interesting how people serious about text editing always seem to end up throwing away most of the DOM and use Canvas or SVG (e.g. CodeMirror). But even then the browser brings a lot to the table in terms of a common runtime.

It brings a runtime that's easy to distribute to, that's pretty much it. I think there are plenty of runtimes out there (e.g. Java Web Start + JavaFX) that are just as good if not better, but they don't have anything like the same installed base (especially in locked-down corporate environments where you can't just distribute your thing bundled as an executable, which is where a preinstalled runtime really matters) as the browser.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an acqui-hire. From the announcement: > And cketti [lead dev] has already joined the full-time Thunderbird staff, bringing along his valuable expertise and experience with mobile platforms. [...] To accomplish that, we’ll devote finances and development time to continually improving K-9 Mail.

Where does it say it's an acquistion? Acqui-hires generally discard the acquired organization's product; where does it say Thunderbird is doing that? It looks like they are embracing it.

The distinction should be made on if the IP is transferred or not. What the acquirer actually does with that IP post-acquisition is orthogonal.

There's no indication of IP transfer so it seems like this is not technically an acqui-hire, but not for the reason you're stating.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#246
post #66

As a Thunderbird and K-9 user this is 51% good news and 49% possibly bad new. Good news because it should increase the chances that the two products will live a longer life. Possibly bad news because I'm one of the crowd that went back to K-9 5.600 because the new version destroyed the UI that was the primary reason why we picked K-9 over other apps. 100% self selection bias here. There was maybe an ongoing effort to…

FairEmail exists, k-9 was fine when nothing else existed but now we'll get a thunderbird (read: trash) branded version that still doesn't do its one job well.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify, the comment in question was > Note that Mozilla has nothing to do with Thunderbird anymore. which fails to claim anything about the Mozilla Foundation or Corporation in particular.

I agree that "nothing to do" is a strong statement but it's neither "Mozilla Foundation" nor "Mozilla Corporation". It's "MZLA Technologies Corporation".

When they announced the split, I seem to remember reading it's setup pretty much the same way as the Mozilla Corporation, so as a corporate subsidiary of Mozilla Foundation.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#249

As an aside, Thunderbird occupies that uncomfortable space of software that is libre, but seems so bloated and complex I don't want to install it, let alone work on it. I'm not sure if that perception is "accurate" (which of course depends on how you define things). But think of OpenOffice/LibreOffice. It's a huge, classically written C++ blob that is hard to check out hard to build and hard to contribute to. Yet, it…

> As an aside, Thunderbird occupies that uncomfortable space of software that is libre, but seems so bloated and complex I don't want to install it, let alone work on it. I'm not sure if that perception is "accurate" (which of course depends on how you define things). But think of OpenOffice/LibreOffice. It's a huge, classically written C++ blob that is hard to check out hard to build and hard to contribute to. Yet, its very existence undermines the motivation to start something new.

I think what those have in common is being corporate codebases that were "dumped" as open source. If you look at the equivalents that were built as open-source from day 1 - KMail, Konqueror, and KOffice - you find something that while still C++ is much cleaner and better structured, since they were always meant to be maintained by a distributed collaboration rather than a small team of l33t h4x0rs.

> Surely there is a space for minimalist office suites and email clients, written starting with a browser as a jumping off point, rather than a compiler? I guess I'm arguing for an Electron-based docs/sheets/email/calendar using modern software best practices, and great components. An email client should be a webview + sql-lite, no? And (for office docs) maybe with a more thoughtful file format, like a simple html subset. Does this exist?

I don't think browser-based is the right direction, and I actually think browser-based may detract from having good standard UI component libraries, since the browser itself tends to fall into the trap you mentioned - browser-native components are simultaneously not great, but imposing and complex enough to suck the oxygen away from alternatives. But I agree there's a lot of value in using existing frameworks and libraries to develop your applications, and definitely something that contributes to both OpenOffice/LibreOffice and Mozilla-family applications being as complicated as they are is the fact that they include their own one-off GUI frameworks. (In fairness Mozilla did originally make a legitimate attempt to make their GUI framework an actual first-class GUI framework that could be used for other applications with XULRunner etc., but those days are long gone now). Again this is somewhere where I find KDE family applications shines in comparison - everything is properly layered between the libraries, frameworks, and applications, and the libraries actually see reuse across a wide range of applications.

Re: Our plans for Thunderbird on Android

#250

I get skeptical about acquisitions, but from what I can tell this actually seems like decent news. Thunderbird isn't acquiring K-9 to kill it or merge with an additional product, they're buying it so they can increase its development speed and then put their name on it. That seems to me like about the best acquisition goal that they could have -- basically saying, "what exists is good, instead of building our own thi…

People would be wise to look into the incredible amount of criticism thrown at K-9 in the last two years over the recent UI design changes.

I personally see this as a way for cketti to get acqui-hired and maybe get away from K-9 Mail. The amount of hate directed towards him from the userbase (mostly justified, sorry to say) has been substantial and I can't imagine he really wants to continue dealing with that.

Hopefully Thunderbird will do another UI redesign and fix the mess that was made. I ditched K-9 after the new design came out two years ago.

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