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Everything with a battery should have an off switch

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Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#241
Number one on the list of "gifts your family can give you to make you hate them": the BeatBo[0] child's toy. It rolls around, has no on/off or volume control, and is motion/vibration activated, so it will indeed start blaring music and rolling around if you take actions like "walk across the floor".

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-Bright-Beats-Tumble-Beat...

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have read that the build quality of batteries has dropped.

I have a digital LCD clock, a giveaway by NTT from a trade fair, that still works with the same single Maxell AA battery since 1998. The battery quality must have been amazing at the time, or the clock uses almost no power. I honestly don't know how that's possible. :D

I remember getting a digital watch in a box of cereal in ~1990 or so. That thing lasted 10+ years on just the battery inside it.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#243
> Oh, great, this debate again! I shall use this post as ammunition next time I am arguing with our stupid design team about why we need an off switch on the stupid product we are designing, because it is a giant pain to live with devices you cannot turn off.

I increasingly subscribe to the thesis that many designers and design teams design primarily in an effort to impress other designers. They don't have to use the things. They often don't even really care if the things work at all. They care that other designers - their artistic peers - are impressed.

This does not generally result in what we the customers or users would regard as good design. The phenomenon reminds me of software engineers I've worked with who were more interested in building something with event sourcing and stream processing and functional languages rather than solving the problem more readily.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#244
post #196

So true. I just found out in the hard way, by letting the battery in a home safebox expire. I cannot find the physical key and the electronic lock does not work without power. I will have to call some specialists to break in.

I'm sure you had an array of considerations when buying an electronic safebox, but this is the bottom line as to why I would never buy one. As a programmer my day job is "this isn't working the way it's supposed to, lets figure out why and fix it." I can't fathom ever wanting to deal with that stuff when I get off work. A lock and key have been working just fine since the Roman times, it's relatively easy to conceptu…

A lock and a key has other failure modes. I broke a key in a lock more than once in my life. I also once accidentally fouled up a lock with some kind of dirt/fluff that it stopped working with the key.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#245

So true. I just found out in the hard way, by letting the battery in a home safebox expire. I cannot find the physical key and the electronic lock does not work without power. I will have to call some specialists to break in.

You could probably pick it. There are, not surprisingly, plenty of videos on YouTube about this.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#246
post #2

Sometimes you don't want that actually. For example if the reason that device has an battery is a RTC (Realtime Clock) and it uses it to keep track of time. Or with things where battery life is a much smaller issue than forgetting to turn the thing on (e.g. smoke detectors). Or with things that draw unspeakably low amounts of current and where such switches would be hard to implement (e.g. digital wrist watches). Oth…

> Or with things where battery life is a much smaller issue than forgetting to turn the thing on (e.g. smoke detectors). What an odd example to pick.

Why? Turning off your smoke detectors to save battery seems like a profoundly bad idea

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#247

So true. I just found out in the hard way, by letting the battery in a home safebox expire. I cannot find the physical key and the electronic lock does not work without power. I will have to call some specialists to break in.

You could probably pick it. There are, not surprisingly, plenty of videos on YouTube about this.

I might give it a chance.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#248
post #6

Obligatory addendum every time foone is posted here: foone goes by they/them pronouns and foone hates HN and all it stands for so please don't bother them with twitter replies just because you saw this thread on here. If you think about following them on twitter because of a cool tech thread, please be aware that they're not a tech novelty account and don't complain when they tweet about politics.

Even typical Twitter users can have opinions we agree with at least some of the time.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#249
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a godawful book. In my view it epitomizes everything that is wrong with design today. And the worst part is that comments like these make it come off as the go-to reference to actually solving these problems. The reasons it's the worst design guidance out there is that it teaches: 1) that engineers should NOT be entrusted/involved with user design. 2) to conceptualize users as blissful idiots. 3) that obs…

> So this is what we actually get, devices that SILENTLY fail, designed for people who are assumed not to know what they're doing and who likely do NOT have any technically-literate person around them that could assist them if they could in fact identify the problem. It sounds like your complaint isn't with the advice from the book, but rather that Apple didn't follow it. They did hide away the error messages, but th…

I don't mean to nitpick, but please refer to my comment regarding the inability of being able to inventory everything that can possibly go wrong in a computerized system. That's especially true given that if you take any successful engineering project, you'll see that its useful lifetime usually spans several individual engineering careers. Take something like Windows, or even Android for example. The people who were involved in its early days usually end up moving on to other projects. It's in fact not uncommon to change teams or companies every 3-5 years. There generally is no way for newcomers to understand everything about the system they're inheriting and they'll typically be encouraged not to break legacy stuff.

So not only are systems increasingly complex, but those maintaining them at any given point in time likely don't understand them nearly enough to accomplish what you suggest: understand all potential outcomes and provide useful error recovery. Therefore, the "provide help and guidance" advice provided by Norman effectively becomes "silent failure" for those cases not anticipated by the current-day release team. And since anticipating all outcomes is by definition impossible, Norman's advice is awful.

Re: Everything with a battery should have an off switch

#250
post #237
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make the battery removable, then you have an off-switch and a repairable device. For bonus points, use a battery in a standardized form factor so I can buy spares. I know, I know, the industry doesn't want me to keep my device working longer than the lifespan of a Li-ion cell.

ikr? They have these things now, they call them "AAA" batteries...holy heck, you can take them out, and they even make rechargeable ones. Like, if your thing doesn't work, you can just swap the batteries instead of waiting N hours for it to charge itself....what a concept.

Rechargeable AAAs are crap though. Power density sucks. Voltage level sucks (and voltage regulators will suck the battery dry before your micro does). And the form factor sucks.

I'd sooner have a 18650-family (e.g. 14240 or 14500) become standard than a bunch of AAAs.

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