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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#241
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, what are we going to do? California and Arizona wiped most of the US produce business off the map. Between the destruction of Ukraine, the western us droughts and the impending exhaustion of much of the Ogallala Aquifer, looks like many chickens are coming home to roost in the coming years.

The worst culprits (in terms of volume + heavy water usage) are almonds, pistachios, and walnuts. No one is going to starve because nuts become rare and expensive, so let's start there.

Some nuts are carbon neutral... To grow them you have to grow a forest first. Just don't do it in the desert. Start with eliminating animal products. Feed people instead of livestock. That shouldn't even be controversial but tradition is holding us back. Trust me life is good as a vegan glutton.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel also uses a lot of desalination: “ Israel now gets 55 percent of its domestic water from desalination, and that has helped to turn one of the world’s driest countries into the unlikeliest of water giants.” [1] While CA is busy stonewalling desalination project that could cover 1/3 of Orange County needs and would reuse old power station infra. And not much else is planned. Recycled water isn’t readily availabl…

I'm not familiar with the reasons given for stonewalling desalination plants. It seems to me (a layman) that this would be one of the first real avenues for actual progress on the shortage. Why is this being fought so hard?

Regarding the Poseidon desalination plant proposal for Huntington Beach:

It's an expensive, risky, corporate handout that ranks nearly dead last across the board in terms of water reliability, value, and financial risk relative to any other proposed water projects(including some other desalination projects) per MWDOC's own report.

https://www.mwdoc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2018-FINAL-...

That thing with Newsom at the French Laundry was because it was a birthday party for a Poseidon lobbyist.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA water use is 50% environment, 40% agriculture, 10% residential. Maybe we should focus on reducing that 50%? It was nice and all when we had plenty of water to waste but it’s time to revisit those policies. https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/

the easiest way to do that is of course to plant shading plants at the edges of waterways.

That is actually the traditional way to evaporate as much water as possible, not to save it. Trees have a lot of surface area.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#244

Like others mentioned the current drought/dry period is how the west has always been. What is an abnormality is the last 150 years and how wet it was. Multiple scientists are saying the same thing but nobody in politics/media are listening. Given no desalinization plants are being built or efforts made to trap more water runoff expect things to get alot worse. Also expect current CA politicans to blame everything on…

I always wondered if there'd be a way to basically create a deeply sloped man-made river system that essentially brings salt water deep inland - say as far as Colorado, and perhaps it can be desalinated naturally setting up some filtration systems along the way to catch some of the salt. Imagine if we had a river as big and wide as the colorado river coming from the pacific ocean and back into the colorado river. It…

That's kinda what the Dutch did but backwards. Saltwater inland has negative value; it is toxic to most plants.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#245
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you're correct about the native people often living as nomads and lacking clothing or permanent structures, it's worth clarifying the "genocide" claim which is a source of mass misunderstanding about American history. To be clear- many indigenous groups lived as distinct tribes for decades or centuries which then disappeared, but essentially none of them were due to direct contact with immigrants from Europe. D…

> Disease, drought, inter-tribal warfare wiped out the vast majority. To be clear, disease was by far the biggest factor. To be even more clear, diseases introduced via Europeans . Wikipedia's list includes "smallpox, bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, the common cold, diphtheria, influenza, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, sexually transmitted diseases (with the possible exception of syphilis), typhoid, typhus, tu…

Your confusion is because you fully believe the myths you've been told. I recognize a message board comment isn't going to change your mind any more than if I tell a devoutly religious person "God isn't real" or an extreme Qanon anti-vaxer that "vaccines don't cause autism". But I'll say it anyway- almost everything the average American was taught in school about native Americans and early settlers is somewhere between completely false and deeply misleading. We teach history as if the natives were peaceful victims and the settlers were violent attackers, but the truth is often entirely the opposite, where refugees from European wars settled as peaceful farmers only to have a Comanche war party find and attack them years later. Unfortunately the Overton window is so far away from reality, that stating basic factual truths like this gets you attacked with the vigor of an atheistic heretic under a Sharia system.

As for the "whataboutism" it's a simple attack against America to silence human rights activists as having essentially "no moral ground to stand upon". If an American says China shouldn't genocide the Uyghurs, they deflect the criticism by refocusing on the (imagined) treatment of various tribes by American policies in the 1800s.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#246
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disease, drought, inter-tribal warfare wiped out the vast majority. To be clear, disease was by far the biggest factor. To be even more clear, diseases introduced via Europeans . Wikipedia's list includes "smallpox, bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, the common cold, diphtheria, influenza, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, sexually transmitted diseases (with the possible exception of syphilis), typhoid, typhus, tu…

Your confusion is because you fully believe the myths you've been told. I recognize a message board comment isn't going to change your mind any more than if I tell a devoutly religious person "God isn't real" or an extreme Qanon anti-vaxer that "vaccines don't cause autism". But I'll say it anyway- almost everything the average American was taught in school about native Americans and early settlers is somewhere betwe…

I don't know what you are talking about. To the point where it sound like you are part of the kooks who believe kids these days are being taught to hate their country.

> you fully believe the myths you've been told

Which myths are you referring to?

> is somewhere between completely false and deeply misleading

I'm totally on board with that. The history I learned in school appear to have whitewashed the history.

> We teach history as if the natives were peaceful victims and the settlers were violent attackers

This is completely untrue. I even pulled out my high school American history book, and it doesn't say that. And my high school teacher is still teaching American history.

> where refugees from European wars settled as peaceful farmers only to have a Comanche war party find and attack them years later.

Is this a specific incident you have in mind? The Comanche surrendered in 1875 so you're talking about settlements in 1870 or earlier, and in modern-day Texas or Oklahoma. I'm hard pressed to think of which European refugees you refer to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comanche_history gives an example of that place and time:

] In May 1847, Texas allowed the German settlers near Fredericksburg and New Braunfels to make their own treaty with the Texas Comanches. In exchange for land, the Germans promised a trading post and gifts. Unfortunately, the Germans not only encroached beyond the agreed boundary, but were slow to pay, and in response the Comanches made raids.

This is some time after the Council House Fight, "in which Republic of Texas officials attempted to capture and take prisoner 33 Comanche chiefs who had come to negotiate a peace treaty, killing them together with two dozen of their family and followers" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Raid_of_1840

Or, quoting https://archive.org/details/americanindianho00thor_0/page/48... :

] In Texas, “the facts of history arc plain: Most Texas Indians were exterminated or brought to the brink of oblivion by Spaniards, Mexicans, Texans, and Americans who often had no more regard for the life of an Indian than they had for that of a dog, sometimes less” (Newcomb, 1961: 334; see also chapters on individual Texas tribes in Ortiz, 1983)

I'm curious - how much regard did this European refugee farmer have for the Comanche? And how did the refugee come to be settled in contested land? Who did he think would protect him, and why?

I ask, because we can directly compare the roughly century of peace between the Comanche and New Mexico, after NM killed Cuerno Verde and made - and upheld - a peace agreement with the Comanche, to know that long-term peace was possible. ... by a non-expansionist power.

> basic factual truths like

There really weren't that many European war refugees settling the plains, so even given that it's a basic factual truth, I don't understand how one small example is at all meaningful over the entire history of English-speaking American expansionism.

> they deflect the criticism by refocusing on the (imagined) treatment of various tribes by American policies in the 1800s

Again, the California Genocide was not imagined. Or do you think it was?

What imagined example are being given? Why make up examples when the real ones are so plentiful?

I mean, Soviet propaganda used real examples of Black oppression in the US to counter American "Free World" propaganda.

And it wasn't until the 1940s that it became illegal to hold someone as a slave - to counter possible Japanese propaganda. Quoting https://www.onlyonesolution.org/blog/blog/2016/01/31/Neo-Sla... .

] The change came as a result of Roosevelt’s fear that racial inequalities would be used as anti-United States propaganda by the Japanese during World War II. After Pearl Harbor Roosevelt asked the cabinet what were the U.S soft spots, propaganda wise. The reply he received was that the Japanese may claim America is stating that it fights for freedom while oppressing its own citizens. This led him to finally order some enforcement actions against slavery by the federal government.

Own up to our negative history, explain why it was wrong, and use that to prevent further genocides.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#247
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even within the already small residential slice, regulations are weird. When my parents lived in the LA area, they had a large swimming pool and an irrigated lawn but were required to have ultra low flush toilets. The amount of water saved by those toilets (which often required multiple flushes to empty the bowl of waste) paled in comparison with the government approved swimming pool and sprinkler systems. How so?…

An uncovered pool loses thousands of gallons of water a month due to evaporation. More so in a bit and dry climate.

As bad as that sounds, all that water (plus all the water used on residential lawns) is included in the 3-5% of California's water that goes to residential use. You could drain every pool in the state and barely touch the total water consumption. And as DannyBee mentioned above, per-capita water use has already been cut 30% over the last 20 years. You could shut off all residential water supplies entirely, to cut residential use by 100%, and still only reduce total water consumption by 5% at most.

Pools aren't the problem. Lawns aren't the problem. Residential use isn't the problem.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the easiest way to do that is of course to plant shading plants at the edges of waterways.

That is actually the traditional way to evaporate as much water as possible, not to save it. Trees have a lot of surface area.

Not all the sunlight hitting a tree is converted into heat. Rainforests don't run out of water despite the presence of trees along their watercourses.
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