Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering • Hacker News Board

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#241

Post by jrapdx3 » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:16 AM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #145

jrapdx3 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not." What benefits of Adderall are you referring to? Drugs like Adderall can have distinct adverse effects, like cardiac arrythmias, increased blood pressure, jitteriness, insomnia, anxiety. And drug misuse/dependence is a major problem with stimulant-class agents. So for sure it's not true that everyone benefits from Adderall. Widely abused on colleg…

I think you’re purposely pretending like you don’t know what I’m talking about. Adderall gives you euphoria, focus, and energy whether you have ADHD or not. For people without ADHD it’s kind of like a strong cup of coffee.

> I think you’re purposely pretending like you don’t know what I’m talking about.

No I wasn't. Though I'm aware of the effects you mention in this comment. Adderall or any amphetamine, including methamphetamine acts similarly. But I do think "euphoria" and "focus" are kind of antithetical, so likely not happening at the same time.

However people with ADHD don't experience these things, not euphoria or energy anyway. "Focus" is more like decreased distraction or clarity of thought. With medications ADHD people typically are calmer, more "centered" and more appropriately motivated to get done what they need to.

Ironically the "stimulant" medications aren't stimulating to those with ADHD. IOW they don't feel anything in particular from the medications, it simply allows them to function more fluently. Of course if the dose is way too much, even ADHD folks will have side effects (usually jittery sensations, anxiety, interference with sleep, and other effects).

Naturally I can't recommend using prescription and DEA-controlled drugs without a good medical reason, but of course I'm sure you knew I'd say that. :)

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#242

Post by sph » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:40 AM UTC

ascar wrote: post #19

TrackerFF wrote: post #7

I have ADHD (ADD), and was diagnosed after 30 - though I've greatly suffered from it since my teenage years. Sure, it is a big part of me, always has been, but I don't really make it part of my identity. I can't control it like a superpower, and there are serious consequences if you're not careful. I've noticed that in the ADHD community, there are some very vocal people that will wear the diagnosis with pride. I mea…

Personally I don't like seeing it as a regular illness. Yes it's a complication to how society wants people to function. Work 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Go to school 6 hours a day 5 days a week. Be productive in that time frame. Keep focus on given tasks. You can take medication to adhere to these artificial expectations on how an individual should function within society. Or you can live in a way that matches your…

> You can take medication to adhere to these artificial expectations on how an individual should function within society. Or you can live in a way that matches your natural behavior and capabilities.

What if the behaviour causes pain to you? What if it's the cause of your anxiety, depression, loneliness, addiction? Because at a certain point, you need to admit that it's not that you need a life that matches your capabilities, but some help.

Would you think the same if someone were short-sighted? Should they live in a way that everything is at arms reach?

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#243

Post by refurb » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:42 AM UTC

chrsig wrote: post #236

refurb wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But than the logical conclusion is there are no disorders only a failure to accommodate? If someone is psychotic and disconnected with reality are we just applying our neurotypical filter? Should we just accommodate people who hear voices?

> Should we just accommodate people who hear voices? We should do a better job than we do now.

No, should medicate them because most people don’t want to hear voices.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#244

Post by jasfi » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

Pay attention to your stress levels, it's important that they aren't too high. Ashwagandha is very good at lowering cortisol levels.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#245

Post by sph » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:46 AM UTC

jrapdx3 wrote: post #139

lghh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 30. I got diagnosed with ADHD a few months ago and I started treatment (adderall and lifestyle changes). Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it. Once I began treatment, the change was almost overnight. I know I'm just one data point in a sea of data points, but I really just want to add that I'm on the other end of the parent comment and getting diagnosed, other than my marria…

> "Growing up, ADHD was my biggest enemy in life and I didn't even realize it." That corresponds to what many ADHD adults have experienced. Based on what I've observed among ADHD patients, early response to treatment is a reason for optimism. Chances are ongoing treatment will support continued improvement for months if not years. And not just the patient but also the person's family and beyond. Differences in outcom…

One interesting idea I've read is that life long treatment might enable long lasting behavioural and even physical changes in the brain that makes functioning easier when unmedicated.

Basically, meds set you on a healthy path that might lessen the effects of the disorder.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#246

Post by Doxin » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:47 AM UTC

kqr wrote: post #182

aahortwwy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the diagnostic criteria for ADHD and many other disorders require that the deviation amount to a disorder rather than not interfering with someone's life. > interfering with someone's life The specific phrase used in the DSM-V is: "symptoms interfere with or reduce the quality of social, academic, or occupational functioning". Schooling started to become compulsory in the USA in the mid-to-late 19th century, and re…

I am very close to someone who suffers from this disorder. Their inability to function in terms of personal care, family, social life, occupationally, etc. goes way beyond "normal behaviour in a system that does not accommodate everyone". Try imagining a literal five-year old in a grown-up body. That's what this person is like when it comes to anything that does not have immediate ( I say this with love, to be clear.…

There are extremes to any condition. By far most people with ADHD manage to survive just fine. That survival could be changed into thriving for a big number of them if only society would get their collective head out of their collective arses and not tilt at the slightest sign of "different."

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#247

Post by sph » Mon, May 02, 2022, 8:50 AM UTC

jrapdx3 wrote: post #129

symlinkk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not. How are you so sure you really have it?

> "I mean, anyone benefits from Adderall whether you have ADHD or not." What benefits of Adderall are you referring to? Drugs like Adderall can have distinct adverse effects, like cardiac arrythmias, increased blood pressure, jitteriness, insomnia, anxiety. And drug misuse/dependence is a major problem with stimulant-class agents. So for sure it's not true that everyone benefits from Adderall. Widely abused on colleg…

> Drugs like Adderall can have distinct adverse effects, like cardiac arrythmias, increased blood pressure, jitteriness, insomnia, anxiety.

Because Adderall is (IMHO) suboptimal. Most of the physical effects come from the 25% levoamphetamine, a primarily physical stimulant.

Other ADHD drugs [1] are 100% dextroamphetamine, which exerts most of its effect in the brain, with minimal physical side effects. D-AMP doesn't increase my blood pressure, doesn't increase my RHR, doesn't cause insomnia nor jitters. It feels smoother than a cup of coffee.

1: then there's methylphenidate, which I've never tried and haven't studied as much.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#248

Post by porknubbins » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:01 AM UTC

photojosh wrote: post #163

hirvi74 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the GP, but times I find it helpful: 1. When high levels of energy or reaction are required e.g. sports and games where reaction speed and/or impulsivity is advantageous. I have been told on multiple occasions when I have been in emergency situations with others, that I do not tend to "Freeze up" like many others do. 2. High stress environments -- When it gets down to "Fire and Brimstone" time, I can develop a "h…

hirvi, this is brilliant and so relateable, so thank you. Mine are very similar, but I would add with respect to your points... 1. Yes, but I also have to know that I am the one in charge... otherwise I will not take charge, but I will be ready to be told exactly what to do, and THAT I will do very quickly. [see A below] 2. Also yes, and true for software development too, but it makes the long burn so difficult. Give…

Thanks for your examples, a lot of that really hits home, especially the stimulants. I have been trying to figure out why I can't quite function without caffeine, not in a get a headache and feel sleepy sort of way, but that without it I feel really listless and almost depressed.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#249

Post by JabavuAdams » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:03 AM UTC

jagtesh wrote: post #180

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say he never had ADHD. I’m saying he does not have it now. Do you understand the significance of that difference?

ADHD is the result of physical differences in the brain. You could be managing as well as a neurotypical individual, but that doesn’t mean you’re no longer someone with ADHD. You are born this way. Such as someone on the ASD spectrum.

The thing is that last D. A mental difference is not necessarily a disorder. That depends on severity and extrinsic factors.

E.g. there are cultures where punctuality is not really a thing. I'm not saying we don't gain many benefits from a culture of punctuality and reliability, or that one would necessarily want to live in one of these cultures. I'm just expanding on the author's point about extrinsic factors. Difference can often be a disorder, but difference is not equal to disorder.

Re: Mental illness, attention deficit disorder, and suffering

#250

Post by JabavuAdams » Mon, May 02, 2022, 9:07 AM UTC

It can be simultaneously true that ADHD is over-diagnosed (in some cultures), and also that people can benefit from treating what we currently understand as/call ADHD.

It can be simultaneously true that ADHD has no positive consequences for some people, whereas it brings benefits (or is correlated to beneficial traits) in other people.