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I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

lof.flounder.online

241–250 of 305 posts

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t forget that those peers are also being damaged and may not make the best friends. From my observation children are increasingly dysfunctional.

> From my observation children are increasingly dysfunctional. Hasn't every generation complained about this? We forget that we were children once too, and pushed at the boundaries as we matured into teens. This is what children do.

> “Children; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. They no longer rise when elders enter the room, they contradict their parents and tyrannize their teachers. Children are now tyrants.”

~ Socrates

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#242
post #207

The main point to remember is that the fones we carry aren't for us. They are data-gathering tools for various spy enterprises. Any utility we get out of our fones is largely incidental, or at best it's bait to get us into the trap. It's interesting that most of the replies here focus on the children aspect, while the same spy-device paradigm applies as much or more to adults. The bottom line is I just don't get enou…

The replies focus on the children aspect because that strips away the most challenging counterargument: why shouldn't adults be able to decide, as many if not most do, that they do get lots of utility out of their phones and don't much care about being spied on incidentally? It's hard to tell a story where smartphones are more dangerous than smoking, and despite being completely illegal for kids we mostly let people…

>why shouldn't adults be able to decide

The majority of consumers are not tech-savvy enough to make informed decisions when it comes to electronics and their own freedom because the tech stack is just too complex, and even if they wanted to learn about it, most of the hardware and software is closed source and nearly impossible to modify. Most smartphone users don't even know that they're being spied on. To compound the problem, the companies that make the phones put out deceptive advertising claiming that these devices are private, and your data stays in your pocket. They're lying, and even the ToS agreement you click through during a new device setup says as much.

I reject the notion that a majority or even a plurality consent to this garbage.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#243

If you're in the EU, taking a stance against the GAFAMs is getting ever easier. Since you have pre-teens, being a role model is probably the best you can do - boycott them in all your life. Yes, it's hard to refuse to use both Android and iOS, Slack, Github, YouTube, WhatsApp, Instagram, Zoom, TikTok, LinkedIn and their ilk even in your work - but at some point one has to take some responsibilities ! Especially that…

But like here in Sweden Mobile BankID forces you to use Android or Apple. And at least that's a great improvement over the old BankID that forced you to use Windows. But even both of those are massive improvements over the old days of constant in-person appointments (and delays), paper forms, etc. I think it's the lesser evil tbh. Go live in Germany to experience the hassle of a technologically backward society (cash…

Change banks ? Clearly alternatives exist since I assume even in Sweden a not an insignificant minority of the population never had access to Windows or Android or Apple.

And at this point using cash, checks, and other paper alternatives is clearly a lesser evil than being forced (to stay) on Android or iOS.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#244
I don't think there's a way out. I believe it's up to us to accept the reality that this problem is only going to get worse before it gets better.

I firmly believe your tools as a parent is to start understanding concepts taught in Stoicism, Taoism, Buddhism, and more.

The ideas around moderation, detachment, and effortless action should be praised. Technology is a tool if you consider these ideas. It can work for you, not against you.

I wouldn't be in the same position I am today without my early addiction to the internet & video games. My parents tried their best. Now being 30 with 2 young kids, I'm more prepared than ever to fight the good fight. It's going to be hard, but perhaps when they grow up they will also look back to these lessons I was trying to teach them.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#245
post #171

I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside? It is rather sad to see this, they are hanging out sharing videos they find on their feeds through their phones. One time my son said, hey get off your phone…

> I have a son who is 11. All of his friends have smart phones. He will have friends over to the house and the friends will sit there and stare at their phones. My son who doesn't have a phone will be like, hey can you get off tiktok so we can play or go outside?

I have a daughter who is 10. She and most of her friends have a smart phone. She is friends with a neighbor girl who is home schooled. When they hang out, the home schooled girl who has extremely limited access to electronics just wants to sit inside and watch shows and play games while my daughter wants to go outside and play. In fact, when she's hanging out with any of her friends none of them are glued to their phones. Anecdotes are fun!

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#246
post #207

The main point to remember is that the fones we carry aren't for us. They are data-gathering tools for various spy enterprises. Any utility we get out of our fones is largely incidental, or at best it's bait to get us into the trap. It's interesting that most of the replies here focus on the children aspect, while the same spy-device paradigm applies as much or more to adults. The bottom line is I just don't get enou…

My phone is for me, whether or not FAANG et al gets some value out of it.

I get more utility out of my tech interactions on my phone than I give to "various spy enterprises". I use many services to their maximum, IMO negating most of the benefit they gain from loss-leader products that are their bait for me-as-a-product.

You _are_ being tracked and monetized. Your devices _are_ fingerprinted, and your demographics are tabulated and collated. The modern web doesn't have an effective opt-out (Ye Olde Web didn't either), so you may as well go all-in and extract as much value of your own as you can from the system.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#247

I don't think there's a way out. I believe it's up to us to accept the reality that this problem is only going to get worse before it gets better. I firmly believe your tools as a parent is to start understanding concepts taught in Stoicism, Taoism, Buddhism, and more. The ideas around moderation, detachment, and effortless action should be praised. Technology is a tool if you consider these ideas. It can work for yo…

can you go more indepth into 'effortless action' and how my kids can apply it to doing their homework?

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#248
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone also with two young kids, my hope is to instill the idea that they can and should use the internet for their own expression and communication, but that they need to do it with tools which puts them in control, and not the other way around. There are "indie web" alternatives to the big social networks which everyone can use. Social networks without the algorithms that make you doom scrolling, messaging apps…

> do not gamify karma-whoring Christ, I'm not really on the 'complain about social media' train, but this resonates with me so much. The way people pose and mug for upvotes on Reddit - or mortifiedly delete their comments when they get some downdoots – is, well, it's self-abasing. I can't believe the effect it has on people. For kids I can only imagine how destructive it would be, in the already insecure and reputati…

Re HN: I've had a hn account for 7 years, and I still can't downvote, and I think I like it this way. If I feel strongly enough I can start a dialogue instead.

Conversation threads on hn are also nice in my opinion, they are not compulsory, if you forget a discussion was happening the platform allows that. Instead of throwing it back in your face to encourage engagement.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#249

I don't have kids yet but it is something that has been discussed about my nieces and nephews. As you say, you don't want your kids to become social pariahs but you also don't want to give them smart phones, in this day and age it looks like the two are intrinsically linked, which is disappointing. I would like to say that we can teach kids to have a healthy relationship with the internet and social media but sites l…

I used to lead policy on digital school education for an important organization advising governments on education policy. This was my driving concern: to fight against all the old grumpy people that don't understand and absolutely fear the digital world and think that all would be well if we ban 0s and 1s from school and force kids to go into the woods (not at all exaggerating on the latter part). There were also others that think all problems are solved when you just get everyone to learn coding, which is a starting point but nearly equally wrong and naive as you need societal context and other understanding to make sense of the digital.

It is a basic but at system level not obvious insight that you cannot ignore reality in how you educate your or anyone else's children. It is easy to be careful and conservative but for education to be useful you have to teach them about difficult topics early and thoroughly and both the substance and the methodology have to actually fit the reality these children can and do encounter every day and WILL eventually encounter once they leave the protected environment of school and parents.

You simply cannot teach a child to be a mature, employable, self-confident, independent, informed and sensible adult without the tools of the normal world. By all means, keep them away from tech completely and there are exactly two scenarios: 1) they sneak their way into getting access 2) they fall into an adult life they are not prepared for and will suffer for it.

You, as a parent or educator, mist face reality and discomfort yourself and engage with the world your children encounter. Teach them understanding and insight, not shame or fear.

Re: I decided to move away from big tech for my children and myself

#250
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> items that are 100% toxic [...] like rap/hip-hop music Didn't expect to see this take on HN, especially in the age when the library of congress includes hip-hop records and a former president expressed his appreciation towards it openly. Ffs, it is just another form of art. It isn't some vice that they will unfortunately have to eventually be able to work around, like alcohol. There is genuine value in it. Same wit…

>especially in the age when library of congress includes hip-hop records and a former president expressed his appreciation towards it openly. Is this supposed to be some kind of moral argument? I once asked my classmate what the hiphop song was about becuase I couldn't follow the lyrics (I'm not native to the anglosphere) and he replied "It's about how he drives around and finds women to drug and rape". Apparently it…

This is about as good faith of an argument as using Cannibal Corpse as an example to prove a point that all rock music (including Queen/Pink Floyd/etc) is immoral and univerally bad. Hey, Cannibal Corpse is quite popular and known too.

Something tells me that the type of hip-hop songs you've mentioned aren't the ones being included in the library of congress.

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