Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#241

Post by mathattack » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:32 AM UTC

n8cpdx wrote: post #134

quadrifoliate wrote: post #116

> I bought him a Chromebook for schoolwork, but also for other private things. When we logged in... This is why you need to pay attention to the technology choices that you make, and that your schools make. Chromebooks are designed from the ground up to be locked-down dystopian spyware once you "log in" to them with a specific Google account. For heaven's sake stop buying any more Chromebooks. The correct solution he…

> Call into the school's board meeting during public comment, and make it loud and clear that the school is installing spyware on students' Chromebooks. Share your technical credentials and the method by which you found this. Just some comments on the political aspect of this, since the HN crowd tends to not be so good at that part: - Following this advice and using a tone that even resembles the tone of the comment…

The other thing is add is the only way to impact the school system is to create an alternative (private or charter) or get your own people on the school board. Or if you’re really rich, hire a lawyer, but that’s kind of an %sshole move because then the school district has to either cave to everyone hiring a lawyer, or fire the music teacher to pay for legal defense.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#242

Post by toast0 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:33 AM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #146

mfreydavis wrote: post #86

I work for a school district (not CPS) with about 2000 deployed Chromebooks and you're likely running into one of two things. 1) You somehow 'enrolled' the device into the Chromebook management. This is hard to do by mistake but if you do, essentially puts the device under the control of the school district. It also uses up a license on their end. We only allow particular IT only accounts to enroll devices. 2) You're…

So, it sounds like the best advice to OP is to create another 'home' account for their son, on the same device, which won't be monitored or affected by anything the school does. The son can decide which account to log into based on what they plan to do that day.

Probably better to login (or not) to the chrome OS device as a personal account, and then login in the browser (private mode perhaps?) to the school account to do the classroom stuff. I don't think logging in to the school account in Chrome the browser will trigger the same behavior as logging in to the school account in Chrome the OS.

You may need/want to powerwash the device again.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#243

Post by avs733 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:34 AM UTC

evilDagmar wrote: post #173

quadrifoliate wrote: post #116

> I bought him a Chromebook for schoolwork, but also for other private things. When we logged in... This is why you need to pay attention to the technology choices that you make, and that your schools make. Chromebooks are designed from the ground up to be locked-down dystopian spyware once you "log in" to them with a specific Google account. For heaven's sake stop buying any more Chromebooks. The correct solution he…

> Chromebooks are designed from the ground up to be locked-down dystopian spyware once you "log in" to them with a specific Google account. Nonsense. They were designed to implement required policies when someone logs into a managed domain. Unless you're logging into something like that (where disclosures have been made and consent has been obtained) then there's no "dystopian spyware" involved. Absent any domain man…

> (and this I find to be much more likely) the school was dumb

It makes me cringe that this is an accurate assessment of how our educational system is run.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#244

Post by autoexec » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:36 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #219

> I bought him a Chromebook for schoolwork, but also for other private things. Sadly we do not live in a world where this is a reasonable expectation. School is effectively work. There should be separate hardware for both. If you have more than one kid they shouldn’t share hardware. Don’t use your work laptop for anything personal. Don’t set up corporate email on your phone. Don’t log in to your personal iCloud on yo…

> Back in my day my parents donated Kleenex boxes and other classroom supplies. This isn’t really any different.

Except for the fact that this Kleenex box can cost costs hundreds if not thousands of dollars and most families don't even own a Kleenex box or they only have one.

Just like how it's no problem for most people to buy enough pencils and paper for every member of the household so picking up a little more for school supplies isn't a big deal but if the school expects a kid to use a laptop or a Wacom Cintiq Pro not every parent is going to be able to afford that and nobody is donating them.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#245

Post by toast0 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:37 AM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #193

MereInterest wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromebooks do allow more than one user account, yes. The factory reset mentioned by the OP was necessary in order to undo the enrollment, as no application of Administrator/Owner privileges would undo it otherwise.

I think you misunderstand the original post - the parent didnt have some sort of local administrator account (which isnt really a thing on ChromeOS). They signed into a managed account run by the school district, didnt like the policy, then reset the device, signed into the same managed account again , and noticed the same policy was applied.

> local administrator account (which isnt really a thing on ChromeOS).

The first user to sign in on a chromebook has limited special powers. I don't think they involve reading other people's data though.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#246

Post by gernb » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:39 AM UTC

evilDagmar wrote: post #173

quadrifoliate wrote: post #116

> I bought him a Chromebook for schoolwork, but also for other private things. When we logged in... This is why you need to pay attention to the technology choices that you make, and that your schools make. Chromebooks are designed from the ground up to be locked-down dystopian spyware once you "log in" to them with a specific Google account. For heaven's sake stop buying any more Chromebooks. The correct solution he…

> Chromebooks are designed from the ground up to be locked-down dystopian spyware once you "log in" to them with a specific Google account. Nonsense. They were designed to implement required policies when someone logs into a managed domain. Unless you're logging into something like that (where disclosures have been made and consent has been obtained) then there's no "dystopian spyware" involved. Absent any domain man…

Agreed, domain admins can also lock down Windows, iOS, Android, and MacOS.

The school is effectively making the computer a terminal into their system. Their system, their rules.

I know the OP won't like this answer but the OP should buy their kid another computer for their non-school activities. Of course they could also complain to their school/district to change the polices. Personally, I'm used to it. I have a personal computer for my own use and a corp computer that's managed by corp and is locked down. I don't complain the corp computer is locked down (except when it gets in the way of doing my actual job). For all personal stuff I use my personal computer.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#247

Post by treeman79 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:45 AM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #241

n8cpdx wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Call into the school's board meeting during public comment, and make it loud and clear that the school is installing spyware on students' Chromebooks. Share your technical credentials and the method by which you found this. Just some comments on the political aspect of this, since the HN crowd tends to not be so good at that part: - Following this advice and using a tone that even resembles the tone of the comment…

The other thing is add is the only way to impact the school system is to create an alternative (private or charter) or get your own people on the school board. Or if you’re really rich, hire a lawyer, but that’s kind of an %sshole move because then the school district has to either cave to everyone hiring a lawyer, or fire the music teacher to pay for legal defense.

School choice would do a lot of get schools to compete and be the best possible.

Charter schools is something we use now. Hardly perfect but it’s a lot nicer.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#248

Post by throwaase4na » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:48 AM UTC

Practical advice? Forget it, move on. The system has far more resources and time than you, it costs them nothing to ignore you and by taking no action. Any potential "win" from you can be delayed by them almost indefinitely -- they have salaried legal teams that can deal with any legal action taken by you. It is possible some kind soul may find it in the budget to settle this for $50 and admit no wrongdoing. Would that be satisfying?

Some rather hard experiences have taught us that the system is structured to deal with complaints in a fairly standard way. That is its genius. It's just a laptop, nothing more. You're lucky.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#249

Post by autoexec » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:48 AM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #21

throwaway413 wrote: post #9

Nothing gets “installed” in the traditional sense on a chromebook. When you login to the chromebook, you can log in with any Google credentials. The credentials the school gave your son are managed by them. If you log into that account, it configured the user session per the management of the account, so this will start a “managed” session for that managed user. If you use a personal Google account, none of that shou…

This. My kids have chromebooks, and they have two accounts active on their devices, on at their .k12 for school stuff, and one for their gmail that is open.

Do you actually trust google not to be collecting data on both accounts and link them together somewhere? When I was in school we used to get told that bad behavior would end up in our "permanent record" which would follow us for life, but while that was a lie we all have a permanent record now and nearly every action no matter how mundane or benign gets saved to it.

When I got my cell phone the default keyboard was sending everything I typed to a 3rd party whose privacy policy stated they were collecting data for everything from market research to trying to understand my intelligence/cognitive abilities. I replaced the default keyboard. I can't imagine the wealth of data Google could be collecting form children, their test scores and their associations with other children. They may claim not to collect and store data on your kids, but there are no regulations and nobody is checking. Only a whistleblower could tell you what Google is actually doing. I haven't seen much reason to trust them.

Re: Tell HN: My kid's school installed spyware and I can't remove it

#250

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 3:50 AM UTC

SamBam wrote: post #234

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One solution could be to setup the laptop with a personal email account and configure the school email address to forward everything.

If the student needs to use a Chromebook for school, that won't work. On my daughter's Chromebook, every app and website is tied to the account. It's not just a question of forwarding email.

Yeah, I’m assuming a lot about the ability to do what you need to do without a school account.