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Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#241

Post by specialist »

lupire wrote: post #108
throwaway2474 wrote: post #77

Serious question, for those with more experience than me “in the game” running big successful companies: are dirty tactics like this (and worse) par for the course and generally expected, and it’s sort of understood that the outsiders/general public are shielded from it? Or is it actually shocking? It often seems like there’s two “worlds” operating at the same time. In one, there’s outrage and indignation at this sor…

Yes. In a competitive environment with no law/enforcement, anyone who doesn't cheat loses to someone who does. This is the state of nature, law of the jungle.

The game is broken when honest players have to cheat to be competitive.

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#242

Post by zenmaster10665 »

roamerz wrote: post #231
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't pretend to know all of the details but this comes off as kind of conspiracy-theory. Why is Zuckerberg the boogieman? He just wants to run his company well and get as many eyeballs on paid advertisements as possible... right? Why is there some notion that he wants to push either a liberal or conservative agenda internationally? It's near impossible to moderate a billion people posting crap on a social media pl…

Conspiracy theory? He did everything in his power to get liberals into political power. Yes he is a very large threat to Western society, the United States of America and world peace. The current state of affairs should be the proof anyone needs.

Well there we go... Last one turn out the lights, this guy has solved it.

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#243

Post by kmlx »

coldpie wrote: post #69
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - having Facebook/Meta experience on your resume starts hurting you against others who don't Would you penalize a mechanical engineer for having Volkswagen on their resume because you read about the VW emissions scandal? Should we refuse to hire anyone who interned for politicians who were later involved in scandals? Of course not, because it’s dumb to punish former engineers for something a previous employer did o…

VW emissions scandal is small potatoes compared to what Facebook is doing to the world. Working for a war machine company (Lockheed, GD, etc) would be a much better analogy, and I think the question is a valid one for employees of those companies, too.

> what Facebook is doing to the world.

connecting people?

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#244

Post by polyomino »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #237
polyomino wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Stagwell, formerly The Stagwell Group, is a global marketing and communications group. Founded in 2015 by Mark Penn. >Penn was a chief strategist and pollster in the Hillary Clinton 2008 presidential campaign

And further in Mark Penn's Wikipedia article >Penn met with Trump in February and November 2019 to give him advice on his 2020 re-election strategy. The company claims to be right wing, why would you deny it?

I'm not denying that they claim to be republican, but their actions do serve both parties. As such, I don't think their claim to be republican is particularly meaningful.

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#245

Post by throwaway4good »

numair wrote: post #193

In case you think this is some esoteric issue involving kids’ stuff — keep in mind that the founder of TikTok was one of the most balanced voices within China, who argued that the country needed to engage with the West in a healthier manner. Zuckerberg et al and their incessant lobbying for that TikTok ban basically vaporized that guy’s pull within China, which eliminated a super-valuable asset for the West. So, yeah…

For many Chinese, the US has showed its true face in the past couple of years. Unfortunately this digs a lot deeper than Facebook.

Facebook is guilty of poor management; involving themselves in partisan politics in order to get a competitor banned is an incredible stupid risk to take.

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#246

Post by specialist »

klabb3 wrote: post #162
h2odragon wrote: post #33

I would still like to see someone brag about the "Facebook whistle blower" campaign. That was the most remarkable media ballet in years, someone paid a lot for that. I can't help but wonder if it was FB behind it, "all publicity is good publicity." And despite the amazing success of the campaign at raising "awareness" of the campaign, it didn't have any apparent aim or effect beyond that. We've seen that before from…

Iirc the govt instituted bounties on corporate malfeasance fines to whistleblowers (in % - so can be huge), so there are lawfirms that target and finance whistleblowers. There are even spooks-for-hire who work the targets. It's fascinating. So no, doesn't seem like a hit job at all, just a good mix of first-order incentives. The media balleting is part of the defense, but also it was really informative for many. EDIT…

Kara Swisher, for one, has stated the character assassination of whistleblowers is just part of Facebook's playbook. Make of that what you will. She's far too cozy to tech founders and leaders for my tastes, with no apparent axe to grind, so I lean towards she's just relating an open secret.

For reference, Ronan Farrow names names and relates his own lived experience. Among a zillion other similar accounts. (Sibel Edwards, Snowden, the TV journalist couple that tried to report on illegal doping of dairy cows, ad nauseum.) So I assume paid harrassment is standard practice.

Could be worse. At least killing whistleblowers is rare in the USA.

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#247

Post by vkou »

taylodl wrote: post #131
throwaway2474 wrote: post #77

Serious question, for those with more experience than me “in the game” running big successful companies: are dirty tactics like this (and worse) par for the course and generally expected, and it’s sort of understood that the outsiders/general public are shielded from it? Or is it actually shocking? It often seems like there’s two “worlds” operating at the same time. In one, there’s outrage and indignation at this sor…

Many commenters here have pointed out this is the norm. I'll also point out that most companies fail, and many of the ones that don't fail are despised by their customers/users. What can we say of the companies that succeed and aren't despised? They typically don't do shit like this. The other problem with thinking "this is what everybody does" is there's the unstated "so keep your mouth shut and just go along with i…

> If you work for Facebook and you think this is the norm then you're not going to be inclined to question this behavior

If Facebook is anything like the typical SV mega-corp, the rank and file questions this kind of behaviour. A lot.

But as the saying goes, a dog barks, the wind carries it away.

The politicians at the head of the firm don't care about what their workers think about political matters. [1]

[1] And would like everyone who isn't them to stop being political. #nopolitics, and all that jazz. We're just trying to do work here, not get involved in an unsanctioned-from-corporate culture war...

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#248

Post by bostonsre »

kmlx wrote: post #240
numair wrote: post #193

In case you think this is some esoteric issue involving kids’ stuff — keep in mind that the founder of TikTok was one of the most balanced voices within China, who argued that the country needed to engage with the West in a healthier manner. Zuckerberg et al and their incessant lobbying for that TikTok ban basically vaporized that guy’s pull within China, which eliminated a super-valuable asset for the West. So, yeah…

> Facebook continues to be the single greatest threat to Western society outside of Russia. this statement is both hyperbolic and naive at the same time.

Why is it hyperbolic and why is it naive?

It was a tool used to influence elections in the United States, I can't think of any other entity that has had a larger negative impact on our society recently (maybe coronavirus?).

Re: Facebook paid Republican strategy firm to malign TikTok

#250

Post by bostonsre »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #224
numair wrote: post #193

In case you think this is some esoteric issue involving kids’ stuff — keep in mind that the founder of TikTok was one of the most balanced voices within China, who argued that the country needed to engage with the West in a healthier manner. Zuckerberg et al and their incessant lobbying for that TikTok ban basically vaporized that guy’s pull within China, which eliminated a super-valuable asset for the West. So, yeah…

I won't pretend to know all of the details but this comes off as kind of conspiracy-theory. Why is Zuckerberg the boogieman? He just wants to run his company well and get as many eyeballs on paid advertisements as possible... right? Why is there some notion that he wants to push either a liberal or conservative agenda internationally? It's near impossible to moderate a billion people posting crap on a social media pl…

> He just wants to run his company well and get as many eyeballs on paid advertisements as possible... right?

Yes, I would definitely agree that this is the case and I think that is a large part of the problem. The Machiavellian ends justifying the means equates to him not caring about the negative impacts that he has on society while trying to attract the most eyeballs possible.

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