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Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

nytimes.com

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Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#241

Post by netsharc »

gman83 wrote: post #121
drnonsense42 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only one limited side of it. The very limited tax contribution you’re making towards their education pays off in spades for you. When you’re old, they’re fully funding your social security, providing you with healthcare, keeping you alive militarily for a long time after you have any practical value to society (well, it’s true). If they were not, and only people with children only could take advantage of the r…

Not only that, imagine living in a country with terrible public education. I'm sure crime rates and other similar indicators would be way up. Not exactly a fantastic place to live.

Hear hear! I remember reading an op-ed a decade or so ago, where the author said she didn't mind her taxes going to public education, because she didn't want to die in case someone makes a fatal mistake due to their lack of education...

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#242

Post by oh_sigh »

psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

I'm not trying to blame all our problems on social media, but I think a significant confounding factor that should be considered in any analysis blaming bad unrelated outcomes on the pandemic, is that TikTok exploded in popularity right around the same time as the start of the pandemic(in the US, at least).

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#243

Post by DiggyJohnson »

dazc wrote: post #81
moritonal wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you expand on "I found that ensuring he always has a supply at home has helped with this too"? I guess you mean that when they'd go out to a pub or bar they'd spend too much, which means that social pressure of embarrassment and bar-staff weren't effective controls. Did the extra money spent add to the pressure? What I'm curious at is that makes it sound like they're somewhat controlled within their home, or ju…

He would buy his drink daily, not always from the same place and not at the same time. So some days he'd buy a bottle of cider, other days a bottle or two of wine, a bottle of spirit, etc. In other words, his alcohol consumption was erratic and the fact he had to go out and buy it everyday sometimes led to unintended outcomes such as mixing with the kinds of people with similar issues, having small accidents, being r…

I think this is an extremely fascinating reply, and potentially very effective. Speaking from personal experience on the other end. It’s difficult to describe the energy that takes you to the store, but prevents you from doing everything else in life. Something like anxiety-constrained motivating, but taken to the extreme.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#244

Post by SkittyDog »

elliekelly wrote: post #137
dotancohen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That service exists, though. The hospital specifically referred them to AA.

AA is a religious organization. Not everyone wants to be “saved”. Nor should they have to be in order to get treatment for alcoholism.

With respect, I believe you have a common misunderstanding of 12-step programs... AA is not an inherently religious organization, nor does it require any religious/supernatural beliefs.

I'm an atheist, and I've been to years of AA meetings. There is no requirement of religious belief for participating. The concept of a "higher power" is an important part of dealing with our narcissistic ego defenses, but it's not necessarily a religious concept. God just happens to be a convenient implementation of a "higher power" that works for a lot of folks.

Now, there are plenty of people in AA, attending and running meetings, who DO have religious beliefs. A lot of AA literature is written by people who have religious beliefs... The people who founded AA had religious beliefs. So I think it's understandable that religion appears a lot in the mix.

Plenty of modern AA groups explicitly address the "God not required" issue... Maybe it helps that I live in a big city, but I've never had a problem with being an atheist and participating in AA.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#245

Post by swatcoder »

psychlops wrote: post #130

I notice that "the pandemic" is quickly found as the root cause and no analysis at all is done to identify if the response to the pandemic is to be implicated as well. I'd wager that waking up one day and discovering that one's job is not essential might be stressful. Being forbidden from going to the beaches and parks might have contributed. The stress of learned helplessness from countless bureaucratic decisions la…

That’s an aritificially hostile take, isn’t it?

Most people read “the pandemic” as the global event that started around the beginning of 2020 and certainly that’s how this article and it’s title are using it.

Even if you don’t read the article, it feels like a leap to assume that they’re suggesting that the virus itself somehow made people drink more irresponsibly or made people collectively more vulnerable to alcohol. Has anyone suggested that? Would anyone?

Of course it’s referring to the totality of the experience: the virus, the anxiety, the necessary closures, the precautionary mandates and other parts of “the response”, etc etc

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#246

Post by adamrezich »

barbazoo wrote: post #225
adamrezich wrote: post #201

crazy how absolutely nobody saw nth-order effects coming

I'm trying not to armchair quarterback so I'm asking, what would you have done differently? Aren't there obvious priorities here that need to be dealt with and a deep analysis about potential pandemic responses and their n-th order effects would have been even more detrimental?

I don't think it's too outlandish to have taken a look at the measures taken as they were being proposed and then taken and say to oneself, "this is going to have nth-order effects, many of which are easily predictable, and we should weigh these accordingly." instead, anyone who approached things from this perspective was shouted down, told they were participating in killing people, etc. etc. these nth-order effects range from personal (alcohol-related deaths, children socializing/learning to read faces poorly, effects on education, effects on mental health) to economic (independent stores closing while big box stores flourish).

all of these things and many more were dismissed at the time in favor of taking radical actions which have yet to be proven to be effective. (but they had to be effective, because if we didn't take those actions, things would be worse now, right?)

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#247

Post by [deleted] »

sjg007 wrote: post #93
kaishiro wrote: post #44

My older brother is an alcoholic. I suspect it's somewhat cliche to say, but when he's sober he's the nicest guy I know - almost nobody else I'd rather spend time with - and when he's drunk, he's chaos. The past few years he's been really struggling with sobriety - on and off like a roller coaster. The pandemic was an absolute nightmare for someone like him - in between jobs, trying to stay sober, trying to find the…

Has he tried antabuse or something like that? Those pills make you vomit when you drink and are quite effective in harnessing the body's natural anti-poison response system to curb drinking.

[deleted]

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#248

Post by SkittyDog »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #139
giantg2 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about faith. It's about community and being part of one that at least gives a tiny crap about you (as opposed to the general population).

Lies. They don't exactly accept folks that are openly atheist and tell them their rules for life are crap. You have to act like the religion is correct, even if you don't believe it. A lot of them won't accept you if you are queer in any form. I'm bisexual, and refuse to act like half of me doesn't exist. Some of them won't accept you if you do not dress well enough, though I realize some are more lax. Some consider…

I'm an atheist, and I've attended years of AA meetings. I've never even remotely experienced anything like what you described. But I live in a big city on the West Coast.

AA reflects the character of the people and culture who are implementing it... If those people are judgy religious assholes, then I can't expect their AA meetings would be much different. But it would be a mistake to assume that your local sample defines the entire movement.

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#249

Post by [deleted] »

elliekelly wrote: post #233
Grustaf wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about shame or moral failure, but alcoholism is obviously different from cancer or a broken leg in that you can control it yourself, even if it might be very hard for some. A lot of other conditions also benefit from a more holistic approach, things like obesity, heart problems etc are easy to prevent, hard to cure.

I don’t think it’s “obviously different”. A generation ago people said the same thing about depression and suicidal ideation: you can control it yourself. Just be happy. It’s a lovely sentiment for those of us who don’t suffer from it because it makes us feel like we are immune from the problem. It could never happen to us because we have the mental fortitude to overcome it. It’s a nice thought but it’s nonsense.

[deleted]

Re: Alcohol-related deaths spiked during the pandemic, a study shows

#250

Post by genzoman »

elliekelly wrote: post #137
dotancohen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That service exists, though. The hospital specifically referred them to AA.

AA is a religious organization. Not everyone wants to be “saved”. Nor should they have to be in order to get treatment for alcoholism.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-an...
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