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Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

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Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#241

Post by bee_rider »

ModernMech wrote: post #104
finexplained wrote: post #6

This perfectly describes my experience as a TA in graduate school. At first I didn't understand why my advisor insisted on being so precise in assignment instructions. Then when TAing with him I saw how students could creatively misinterpret instructions, even when I could not imagine how to make them more precise. An exception for the new case would be added to the next iteration of the assignments. I only understoo…

> Then when TAing with him I saw how students could creatively misinterpret instructions, even when I could not imagine how to make them more precise. The best part is if you do make it more precise by specifying the problem in more detail, they will just not read it and ask questions that you answered explicitly in the assignment.

At least if it is in the assignment, you can passive-aggressively copy-paste the text of the document to them.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#242

Post by flycaliguy »

ryandrake wrote: post #200
Forgeties79 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand (as a father of two) I find myself thinking about how my dad handled situations, comparing how I just handled it, and going, “wow did he have that backwards” haha. Not all the time of course and like you I have definitely come to appreciate how tough it is to make the “right” call, but we certainly have learned some things. One thing Boomer parents were really bad about - at least in my experience -…

I think the Boomer "Eat all the food on your plate" meme came from their parents, who lived through the Great Depression and food insecurity. Mindlessly passed down from a time of scarcity to a time of abundance. They just repeated it, but this time with gigantic, obesity-levels of food on their kids' plates. We usually just ask our kid how much she wants to eat. It seems to work a lot better than the way my parents…

Speaking of dinner time, the negative effects of all the boomer moms and their trendy diets on young girls at the time. Weight Watchers. Just the phrase “Weight Watchers” being in the house and in the air.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#243

Post by hnfong »

ModernMech wrote: post #124
beebmam wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a TA, I convinced my professor to stop giving graded assignments. it was obvious on tests who had done the assignments and who hadn't.

This is tough because it creates a strong incentive for them to make bad long-term decisions. Think of it from the perspective of a student: you're taking 6 other courses, all of them very demanding with graded assignments, except for this one class where the assignments are not graded. You have a limited budget of time over the week, and time is getting short. Do you: a) work really hard on your ungraded assignment…

It does sound like a pointless arms race (between different courses)

I majored in Law but took a couple CS courses on the side so I saw the contrast between traditions in different departments. CS courses had a constant stream of non-trivial graded homework. Even if I knew the materials it took me quite some time to complete them. Law courses usually one essay that counts for ~15-25% (or less frequently, a mid-term test), and the rest is the final exam.

Obviously, both methods work (I guess). But if you're already in an environment where courses give out lots of graded assignments, your concerns definitely make sense.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#245

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #202
financetechbro wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid parents are very much everywhere

But stupidity is relative and stupid children are more common. The heuristic can be reworded as adult parents are more knowledgeable and capable than children. Put the average child in the position of the average parent and you will see the difference.

"Children" aren't a homogenous group. Neither are "parents." And "stupid" is not a single metric.

Pre-teens don't have practical adult skills and have poor or non-existent emotional regulation. Teens have some adult skills, are learning or experimenting with others, and have patchy self-regulation.

So it makes perfect sense not to allow kids to do things that are dangerous to others, and to limit what teens can do with strong guide rails.

But when it comes to world view and insight, teens can certainly be wiser than their parents. They may not know what to do with their insight, but they're not wrong - just inexperienced.

Meanwhile many adults are hopelessly naive and may be actively self-harming, especially politically and culturally. And when adults have addiction and/or Cluster B issues, even fairly young kids are more likely to be reliable and responsible.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#246

Post by smogcutter »

mattwilsonn888 wrote: post #193

Any visionary attempting to restructure traditional learning should read this, and I say that with no ounce of malice or sarcasm - its a nice hazard map, and it at least one constructive change that should be enacted: 1. Grades should be a continuum (percentage), not bins (A, B, C,..). "When you are forced to discretize into a small number of bins, injustice is inevitable." Report cards have no rational reason for no…

> Any visionary attempting to restructure traditional learning should read this, and I say that with no ounce of malice or sarcasm...

On the contrary. Part of TFA’s point is that, like many other fields, outsiders usually have a much poorer idea than they think of the hows and whys of teaching. Until you’re actually in front of a classroom it’s not obvious why seemingly sensible ideas are often ineffective or unworkable (see also: any HN thread about k-12). Reading a blog post, rubbing some brain cells on it, and then making pronouncements is exactly the kind of thing TFA warns against.

Any visionary attempting to restructure learning should teach.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#247

Post by light_hue_1 »

jedberg wrote: post #163
sanderjd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the article was fairly strong except for in the two points you highlighted here. In the first case, I still don't understand why you don't just mark their answer from creatively misinterpreted instructions wrong and move on with life. And in the second case it seems like just not worrying about cheaters and letting it be their own funeral (or not) is optimal. I remember who the cheaters were in my classes a…

Both questions were answered in the article. The reason for precise directions is because otherwise people will complain, and if you ignore their complaints, they will complain to your boss. At the end you'll win, but you'll waste a bunch of time defending yourself. The reason for not allowing cheating is repetitional. If you get a reputation for allowing cheaters, then all the cheaters will want to take your class,…

There's a deeper reason for not allowing cheating: you are building cheaters. People who cheat in courses will cheat in industry, why wouldn't they? They normalize this behavior. So you end up with major corporations that steal, politicians that lie, etc.

If for example, Harvard and Yale's law schools stopped rampant cheating. Maybe so many of their graduates wouldn't go on to routinely lie to the public?

I don't teach because it's some sort of penance that I need to pay. I teach because I like it and I want to help build smart humans. Not contribute to our society degenerating.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#249

Post by IshKebab »

hajile wrote: post #149

Unfortunately, even graduating students usually still have the life experience of a child and can't see the real purpose in education. Most are better off without a degree. Most who get a degree would be better off with an apprenticeship tailored to their field. Most of the rest would benefit from getting a few years of real life experience first. The reduction in attendance would lower costs and reduce degree inflat…

Sounds like you don't have the life experience to see that there is more point to getting a degree than learning. Maybe you don't like that, but it is true.

Re: Teaching is a slow process of becoming everything you hate

#250

Post by beebeepka »

Ntrails wrote: post #188
beebeepka wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an excellent point. Yes, usually parents do "what is best for their children". However, good intentions do not guarantee good results. It took me 20 years to undo some of the more direct damage done to me by forcing me into a path I didn't want. Parents being completely wrong for the right reasons is very much a thing. That doesn't even count psychological damage almost guaranteed to lurk in there pretty much…

I think people find it very easy to judge parenting from the outside and/or with hindsight, whether their own or other peoples. I know that my children will wish I did things differently. Whether that is location, discipline, activities, internet access etc etc. I know they will wish I made more reasoned choices in the moment. That I was never tired, distracted, frustrated. That I let them spend their time as they wi…

I am glad you had a nice childhood. Now, would you try to be as understanding to children as to you to fellow parents.

Being well intentioned and caring is the bare expected minimum. Why do we need to repeat this?

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