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Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#241

Post by hunterb123 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #240
micromacrofoot wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it’s not just “not as bad” it’s categorically a different thing

they’re easy categories: government enforced censorship (ie lose your freedom for disobeying) vs private businesses’ editorial discretion (ie just get your news from another company)

Just because you outsource censorship to tech companies to get around the 1A doesn't mean it's not censorship.

The "muh private companies" argument ended long ago when government officials started using it as their main platform and we applied archive rules and prevented Trump from blocking people: https://www.wsj.com/articles/president-trump-cant-block-twit...

You can't have it both ways. Let's investigate why they all decided at once to block it right before the election. Are they coordinating? Let's find out. Seems like an anti-trust issue.

Point is, it's censorship, no matter how much people try to weasel out of it.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#242

Post by nouveaux »

dev_by_day wrote: post #210
nouveaux wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough about the Hunter Biden Laptop story to know what's true and what's not, but your WSJ link is the opinion section. Can you link to a WSJ article not from the opinion section?

It was revealed to likely be real during the publishing of a book by a fairly neutral Politico journalist on Hunter Biden https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/the-hunter-biden-laptop-is-con... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/21/dou...

I've seen similar stories from nypost. I believe they broke the story but I haven't seen anything from WSJ. Can you post the WSJ articles on the story?

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#243

Post by hunterb123 »

nouveaux wrote: post #242
dev_by_day wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was revealed to likely be real during the publishing of a book by a fairly neutral Politico journalist on Hunter Biden https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/the-hunter-biden-laptop-is-con... https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/09/21/dou...

I've seen similar stories from nypost. I believe they broke the story but I haven't seen anything from WSJ. Can you post the WSJ articles on the story?

No post body was provided.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#244

Post by rufus_foreman »

timoth3y wrote: post #238
moate wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avowed leftist here: Let's just agree that both the Dems and Repubs ban/seek to stifle opinions they don't agree with. Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. Both parties want power at the expense of "freedom". Censorship is part of existing as part of a society though. There are people who seek to actively hurt others using words and media, and the whole idea of a state is to (pretend?) to a…

> Someone wants to ban Maus, someone else wants to ban Joe Rogan. Both parties want power at the expense of "freedom". There is an extremely important difference between these two examples. The first was the government forcing school libraries to remove books. The second is individuals expressing displeasure with the speech of another individual. While both involve people who want to silence others. The former is a v…

>> There is an extremely important difference between these two examples. The first was the government forcing school libraries to remove books

Talk about fake news. Maus wasn't banned.

What news sources are you reading that tell you the government forced school libraries to remove Maus? You need to stop reading them, they are misleading you. Find better news sources.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#245

Post by ashwagary »

pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

I agree. If we are being completely honest, the last 3 presidents attacked important information from getting out to the public in varying forms and degrees.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#246

Post by ashwagary »

shagmin wrote: post #167
EtherTyper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or for a more concrete example, look at how both Republicans and Democrats are treating Julian Assange. Investigative journalism and whistleblowing are under attack by all political factions and by the justice system, today. We cannot treat anti-free-press authoritarianism in the West as an "early stage" or tomorrow's problem.

Chelsea Manning may be a better comparison since the US actually sentenced her, but even then that was about a leak with classified information rather than just punishing the press for being critical of the government. And she was arrested and served time (7 years?) and then got out, while coming out as transgendered (imagine going through that in Russian prison). It's not ideal, but it could be taken as an example o…

Whistleblowers are not safe anymore, government abuse is being protected.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#247

Post by ashwagary »

malfist wrote: post #70
EtherTyper wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or for a more concrete example, look at how both Republicans and Democrats are treating Julian Assange. Investigative journalism and whistleblowing are under attack by all political factions and by the justice system, today. We cannot treat anti-free-press authoritarianism in the West as an "early stage" or tomorrow's problem.

Julian Assange isn't a journalist though. He was a contractor trusted with protected information which he then publicized. There's a big difference between a journalist finding and publishing information, and a mole in our government sharing our secrets with people. And that's ignoring the whole rape thing with Assange.

My understanding is the fake rape charges were dropped. I expect it could've been an attempt at character assassination by certain governments with a long history of this kind of attack.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#248

Post by dragonwriter »

ashwagary wrote: post #245
pavlov wrote: post #9

It's good to remember that the previous American president also waged a war against every media outlet he didn't like by claiming they were "fake news." It's the same authoritarianism in different stages. And if you think nobody in America wants to jail journalists and media CEOs, go look at any forum with a substantial amount of Republicans talking freely.

I agree. If we are being completely honest, the last 3 presidents attacked important information from getting out to the public in varying forms and degrees.

> If we are being completely honest, the last 3 presidents attacked important information from getting out to the public in varying forms and degrees.

If we are being completely honest, we won't pretend the last three (whether you mean Obama, Trump, Biden or Bush, Obama, Trump) were special in that regard.

Re: Russia to punish ‘fake news’ about Ukraine war with 15 years’ jail

#250

Post by jgwil2 »

dev_by_day wrote: post #78
jgwil2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> try to de-legitimize election results through "Russia-Gate" conspiracies US intelligence confirmed that Russia tried to swing an election, so this isn't a "conspiracy." As for the rest of your points, those positions were never embraced by mainstream Democrats.

The Mueller report showed some involvement but did not say the election results were illegitimate and there were a large amount of democrats who continue to claim this election result is not legitimate. (FWIW I don't like trump but I still believe he would have won 2016 with or without Russia, its a cop out to blame Russia for that) We literally had Democrat senators saying "rioting is the voice of the streets"(AOC),…

AOC is famously not a mainstream Democrat (she is to the left of almost the whole party), nor is she a senator. And even if she were either of those things, the single line you quote, out of context and without citation, does not show that she is in any way equivalent to the crazier elements of the Republican party (c.f. Marjorie Taylor Greene).
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