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Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

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241–250 of 485 posts

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And yet so many modern day startups have no viable exit strategy beyond acquisition Bandcamp was already profitable and has been for years. The pandemic dramatically increased their sales. They were doing fine. Why did they need an exit ? That is the real flaw of SV thinking: that simply being a profitable, going concern is somehow inadequate. The result is monopoly accretion as small companies are repeatedly swall…

Did bandcamp raise a lot of money from venture capital? The last round listed on crunchbase was a series A in 2010. It looks like management were fine running it more like a lifestyle business.

Yeah, as far as I can tell, they took a seed round and a series A and have been profitable since... 2014? If memory serves?

If you look at their staff growth, it's been very slow and very steady. At the time of acquisition they were sitting in the 100-150 headcount range, which is modest for a company that's almost 15 years old. Given their claim of 207M to artists last year and their touted 18% average rev share, we can guess they were generating around 50M per year gross, which is a very healthy cashflow for a company that size.

Their strategy was clearly not to take over the world, but to carve out a niche and not bother to directly compete with the streaming platforms (which helps to explain, for instance, the incredibly rudimentary mobile player app).

As for the senior management, Diamond had already previously started and sold a company. I'm sure he was doing fine. The same is true of Mark Hall, their VP of Product (who started 5-ish years ago, if I recall). The technical founders I'm less sure about, though apparently at least one of them had already moved on.

I'd absolutely describe it as a sustainable lifestyle business that had a good long-term trajectory. It was never going to be a unicorn, but who cares?

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#242
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's naive to think that the opinion of a 40% shareholder has no influence on the CEO. Even if that just presents as a bias in their decision making. I'm more than willing to accept that I'm being naive. All I ask is some actual evidence of this influence/bias.

Given almost literally all of recorded corporate history in the United States, the onus is very much on the other side to continually demonstrate a lack of influence/bias. Edited to add: I find the blind faith people place in billionaire CEOs insane. Maybe save the empathy for people who need it and treat the obscenely wealthy with healthy skepticism?

"the onus is very much on the other side to continually demonstrate a lack of influence/bias."

does 10 years of lack of influence count? Like, all Tencent did was try to make some LoL mobile game in china (in Unity, ironically enough). That's the one thing I can't imagine Riot/Epic doing without influence. But that's not really a smoking gun. China, mobile market huge, LoL big IP. No effect on LoL proper outside of the devs working on it.

Tencent don't seem to be the kind of company that cares about sticking fingers in the pudding of what works. They invest in successful companies and help other companies (including Sony and Nintendo) operate within China. At this point it feels like the skepticism is unwarranted.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#243

This is absurdly sad to me. I like to own my media (in the most practical sense that current IP laws let me do so). I run a Plex server and use PlexAmp as my primary way of listening to music, and my criteria are always this: * FLAC or similar, I want this to be a lossless preservation of what was on the best-available source. * No DRM. No mandated player. Just let me download a dang file. * "Real" flac: this is tech…

Consider alternatives to Plex (Jellyfin being the main competitor).

With Plex, you may own the media, but Plex, Inc. owns the authentication. You're not allowed to access the service running on your own hardware unless you can log in with a Plex account.

Also: losing What was indeed a massive blow, but there are others still carrying that torch...

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employees who traded compensation for equity probably don't agree. Bandcamp's success is built partially on this trade and at some point it needs to pay off for them. I suppose they could stay private forever and give out profit-sharing bonuses, but I think people go into this expecting an exit.

Did Bandcamp offer employee equity?

Would they have ever managed to hire anyone if they didn't?

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#245
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give them a chance- epic doesnt have a reputation of blowing their aquisitions. It could be far worse!

>epic doesnt have a reputation of blowing their aquisitions. They ditched the Linux version of Rocket League. That counts as a blown acquisition to me.

presumably it has a fall back in wine.

Not supporting linux as a gaming platform is a down to earth decision. It's reasonable, whether necessary or not. As a linux user, I see a difference between the expectation of Linux plus driver vendors to support games and a game vendor to support linux, when it is often depending on a busfactor of 1.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#246
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very term "exit strategy" answers your own question: if you're committed to building a sustainable product, with long-term sustainable profits, caring for your employees and your customers, without any explicit plans to sell off your company to random megacorp, where it will be scrapped for parts, then you're a dumb loser trying to build a lifestyle business and you deserve to be shamed out of Silicon Valley! How…

I completely agree, but this isn't just a VC problem. The entire current economic system incentivises this.

Yeah. They also could have IPOed, but either way the fundamental issue is that people looking for long term investments are willing to pay 10x forward earnings. How do you compete with that without getting employees to make major personal sacrifices?

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#247
post #29
post #13

I'm having a little trouble understanding the motivation for this move. Did Bandcamp have a poor revenue/profit outlook and were they looking to scale? Was this just an exit for founders? I was under the impression that they had a relatively stable and profitable business, and strongly valued their branding and positioning as independent.

I assume it’s because Epic presented a ton of cash and a small but profitable company found it attractive. I can’t imagine anyone wanting to work for or be part of Epic, so that’s my assumption of gobs of cash.

"I can’t imagine anyone wanting to work for or be part of Epic"

creators of one of the two largest third party game engines? A chance for your product to be integrated in a tool used by game studios throughout the world? You really can't imagine any reason past the monetary to work with Epic?

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#248
This is tragic for all the many, many reasons everyone else has outlined (DRM, Tencent, etc.), but for me the biggest blow is the loss of the last commercially viable (profitable!), but independent champion of underground and truly independent music.

Say all you want about the freedom and quasi-independence of self-publishing to the various streaming corporations, etc., but for years now, the underground scene has thrived on and been virtually exclusively supported by Bandcamp.

It's like every independent artist in the world just got signed to a major corporate label all at once, minus the benefits to the artists. I recognize that's hyperbolic, but fuck me, I feel physically sick over this.

Re: Epic Games acquires Bandcamp

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Bandcamp offer employee equity?

Would they have ever managed to hire anyone if they didn't?

Who's to say they didn't? As mentioned elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30532741), they were always focused on slow and steady growth and seemed to be more lifestyle business than wannabe unicorn. Not the shop to join if you wanted lottery ticket options. Maybe they didn't.
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