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How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

blog.kuperate.com

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Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#241

Post by danielvaughn »

camhart wrote: post #135
danielvaughn wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, indeed. I'm technically the CTO of the startup I'm helping to found. And even though I'm 37, I haven't been in tech long enough to feel like I've earned that title, so my LinkedIn says Chief Software Architect (I made it up).

"It's interesting, these titles," Musk said. "You know that there's actually only three titles that actually mean anything for a corporation? It's president, secretary, and treasurer. And technically they can be the same person. And all these other titles are just basically made up. So CEO is a made-up title, CFO is a made-up title. General counsel, a made-up title. They don't mean anything." https://www.youtube.com/…

Love it. Yeah I find myself mentoring junior engineers, writing code myself, reading documentation on tech I've never worked with before, designing email templates, writing marketing copy, crafting business plans, calculating sweat equity, etc etc. So at the end of the day...tf do titles mean

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#242

Post by selestify »

sangnoir wrote: post #193
selestify wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I know I have it good. 1% in terms of income. And I come from a really unprivileged background. Uneducated parents, family on welfare. Shit man, we were so poor, I got into college for free based on needs.

Were your parents - I'm quoting you here - "dumb and lazy"? Since they didn't pull themselves bup by the bootstraps like you did, and yet they allegedly had the same opportunities as you.

They did actually, work their way up from where they started. And eventually got to immigrate to America, where opportunities are much better and their kids could thrive. It’s the stereotypical thing where immigrants to this country are much more hardworking and appreciative of the opportunities they have here compared to their home country, versus the native population who doesn’t appreciate just how good they have it in America. I wouldn’t be surprised if my kids turn out that way — it’s just how it is.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#243

Post by lkrubner »

I remember when I was in high school, I had some friends who studied karate, and they were like, "I finally made it to black belt." Meaning, they were a master now. They were 16 years old, and had maybe 3 years experience. In Taiwan, in the 1890s... uh, they would not be regarded as black belt.

Even then it was clear that there was a lot of "belt inflation" happening. The karate schools like the children to feel like they are making progress, so every 6 months the children got a new belt, until finally they were black belts.

It seems like the same thing has been happening with engineering titles.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#244

Post by selestify »

e4e78a06 wrote: post #216
gambiting wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>If you graduate from any top 10 school in the US — which plenty of people do Yes, and globally that's still nothing. You are talking about the elite of the elite, chosen ones among the chosen ones. In other 1st world countries, and even in majority of USA no, recent graduates are not paid quarter of a million dollars. There's a select, very exclusive, very limited group of people who do. But like others have pointe…

I wasn't aware that "elite of the elite" included many public schools that aren't even that difficult to get into. If you're a California resident UCSD, UCI, UCB, UCLA, UCSB are all accessible schools that give you a very solid shot at a FAANG job out of college. If you're a Michigan resident, same goes for UMich. Illinois, UIUC. Georgia, Georgia Tech. Texas, any number of great state schools. These schools are not t…

That was literally me. Went to community college and, as you say, had a much easier time transferring to a UC. I wasn’t even among the smartest graduates in my program — not by a long shot. And yet, opportunities abound.

Like I said, the software engineering job market is red hot right now. I rejected a few offers and they still asked me a few months later if I would be interested in joining. That’s how desperate they are for anyone with even a reasonable amount of talent.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#245

Post by sam_lowry_ »

shadowfox wrote: post #203
shard wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought General Counsel means you have a JD?

You generally need that and typically reasonable experience wrangling different legal matters at scale. I guess Musk was just being Musk.

I think that Musk is technically right.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#246

Post by selestify »

marcellus23 wrote: post #195
selestify wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because those schools collectively admit tens of thousands of students every year. It’s not that rare.

Maybe it would be helpful if you gave your definition of "typical"?

Good point. I mean “typical” as in, entirely expected within a nontrivial portion of the population. Where absolutely nobody would be surprised that you’re making this much.

Is it typical for the general population to make a million a year? No, but it is entirely typical for investment bankers and quants at hedge funds. To say that is atypical of the average worker in America — well, of course, but that isn’t a very meaningful statement when you’re specifically discussing people in investment firms. And that’s what this article is about — the subset of the population for which this is entirely normal and expected.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#247

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

krinchan wrote: post #226
distrill wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes we do get lucky and pick up a mediocre lifer (like me) why?

Because not everyone feels the need to rate their self-worth by how much wealth they’ve hoarded. I’m already set for retirement and I have my house nearly paid off. I’m comfortable and I don’t make $250,000 a year. I barely work more than 32 hours a week and I just got promoted. Full time work from home with a free working trip back to my old stomping grounds to catch up with friends twice a year. Why would I break m…

Honestly, that sounds like heaven.

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#248

Post by selestify »

lovich wrote: post #212
selestify wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

levels.fyi bro. You get to L4/E4 within a year or two, which is for all practical purposes basically “new grad”

2 years in is explicitly not new grad. New grads are new grads.

Sure, if you want to get specifically technical about it. The overall gist of what the OP was talking about is still true. At most, you could say they’re slightly exaggerating, and should reword to “It’s not at all unusual for new college grads to make $250k a year.”

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#249

Post by [deleted] »

ianbutler wrote: post #238
valbaca wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hilarious because I recently had a junior dev come to me to discuss issues they were having with their (incompetent) software manager. She said "I don't understand why he doesn't understand the technical aspects. It must be me...I must be bad at communicating because [the manager] was a CTO at a startup!" I literally laughed out loud. Her communication skills were fantastic, but she was so new and naive to th…

Depends on the startup to be fair.

[deleted]

Re: How fresh grads with zero experience get hired as senior engineers

#250

Post by thaumasiotes »

iancmceachern wrote: post #224
thaumasiotes wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to have to pick one between >>> So I went to the best school I could afford. Many folks are in this boat. It's not for a lack of trying or intelligence - it's for a lack of privilege. and > But you had the privilege [o]f uncommon intelligence and test taking ability. Not all privilege is money.

Not really. It's not so black and white. My point is that above a certain threshold of GPA/test scores/"intelligence" college is free. If you are below that threshold college is not. For those of us that were below that threshold, for whatever reason, we had to figure out how to pay for it. Within that bucket there are people who's family can just pay for it, no matter how expensive (these are the people going to Har…

So just to be clear, you're repudiating your statement that when people can't afford to attend college, that's not for lack of intelligence on their part?
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