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Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

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Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#241
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No idea, but theorizing “out loud”. Your body could be producing a bunch of insulin in response to the sweet, which lowers your blood sugar level to below normal levels since there’s no actual sugar for it to move around. Low blood sugar ( I’ve seen some people say that they have an insulin response to artificial sweeteners but I don’t know if there’s any medical literature to confirm/quantify it.

aspartam is not affecting the blood sugar though.

But much more insulin than appropriate will lower blood sugar. This would be more of a question of whether or not aspartame causes an insulin response from the taste.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#242

If aspartame was't invented as an ant-killer, it certainly works as one! Dust some ants with it and see what happens.

Plenty of people did and found that it did not do anything to them. The origin of the claim that aspartame is an ant poison was this article.

https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213...

There is no evidence of aspartame being harmful to ants. Dust them with some black pepper and see what happens.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#243
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point in me continuing this discussion with a closed mind. No offense intended.

Indeed there isn't. It isn't a discussion either--you asked a question, which I answered, while you continued to argue from ignorance.

1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.)

2. You have failed to realize the significance of being consistent in presentation especially when stuff is presented in encyclopedic form. To do so in any other way is misleading.

That means that the skeletal and ball-and-stick depictions should be consistent with each other (otherwise it's confusingly - except for geniuses such as yourself of course).

Can't you understand that many people compare both models and that they expect them to match? (It's common practice to count the hydrogens on both to cross reference the chemical formula, etc., etc. - that's a common teaching practice where I come from.)

3. I never said that I disagreed with your assessment of the chemistry and I still don't. In fact, I do understand what you are talking about but (a) it's irrelevant if I do or don't in this instance and (b) expressing the more 'complex' state of molecules isn't normal practice in encyclopedic references. Yes, I'd agree that in textbooks such detail is normal but not here.

If you want to be precise to the nth degree and grind things superfine AND also be consistent across chemistry (i.e.: have common and consistant [standard] nomenclature to describe things) then you could not describe water as just 'H2O'.

OK: now where do we start for a proper formulaic description of water?

We would have to add in hydronium - or should that be hydroxonium (I learned the latter but I'm happy with both). Or should we refer to that as 'oxonium' only? Or should we start the description with something as confusing as:

Water = H20+H3O+ +... . ('water' + oxonium-type ion and then some extras)

How do we describe the protonation in its fullest form (as a formula)?

As you ought to know, this gets even more complicated, should we add in all known cations (Zundel, etc.) for a basic description of water just to ensure the formula is complete in all circumstances (cover all states/conditions)? (And then add a footnote that we may still not have them all as others may still be there - yet to be discovered).

Of course not. It's ridiculous.

Any chemist who works at that level already knows this stuff so it's unnecessary to describe the 'basic' molecule - dare I say it - in anything other than in its simplest (basic) form.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#244
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed there isn't. It isn't a discussion either--you asked a question, which I answered, while you continued to argue from ignorance.

1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.) 2. You have failed to realize the significance of being consistent in presentation especially when stuff is presented in encyclopedic form. To do so in any other way…

  >1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.)
I do not owe you any answer, let alone why someone who is not me decides to represent anything in any form. Both versions (the original ball-and-stick model and the current skeletal structure) are valid, though one of them accounts for protolysis, and one doesn't.

  >2. You have failed to realize the significance of being consistent in presentation especially when stuff is presented in encyclopedic form.
My point was not that the current version is or isn't consistent, my point was that it is WRONG.

  >except for geniuses such as yourself of course
Next to you, I would appear that way. Go to the current version (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame#/media/File:Aspartam...) and count the hydrogen atoms. Then compare to the actual molecular formula of aspartame.

I'll accept an apology, but please stop being this obtuse.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#245
post #242

If aspartame was't invented as an ant-killer, it certainly works as one! Dust some ants with it and see what happens.

Plenty of people did and found that it did not do anything to them. The origin of the claim that aspartame is an ant poison was this article. https://www.thespoof.com/spoof-news/science-technology/11213... There is no evidence of aspartame being harmful to ants. Dust them with some black pepper and see what happens.

My evidence is what I saw with my own eyes. Specifically, I used a pack of canderel, if anyone would like to repeat the experiment.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#246
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.) 2. You have failed to realize the significance of being consistent in presentation especially when stuff is presented in encyclopedic form. To do so in any other way…

>1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.) I do not owe you any answer, let alone why someone who is not me decides to represent anything in any form. Both versions (the original ball-and-stick model and the…

Armistice and olive branch. :-)

I accept your point. As I said earlier, I'm not arguing the chemistry, it's just the issues aren't the same (from my perspective anyway).

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#247
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. You still haven't answered why other more authorative sites such as ChemSpider also display ball-and-stick as per the later Wiki version. (If more than one authorative site does so then there must be some reason for it - for this common consistency.) I do not owe you any answer, let alone why someone who is not me decides to represent anything in any form. Both versions (the original ball-and-stick model and the…

Armistice and olive branch. :-) I accept your point. As I said earlier, I'm not arguing the chemistry, it's just the issues aren't the same (from my perspective anyway).

I'll take it :-)

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#248
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just happened to me. I left a 2 liter in the freezer. I then transferred it to the fridge, thinking the gradual temperature change would be fine. I woke to a strange sound. The bottle had blown the fridge door open, a large gash down the side of the bottle, soda slush everywhere. It took me an hour to clean the fridge.

Was it already frozen when you transferred it to the fridge? That kind of sounds like it was supercooled and it happened to crash out while in the fridge. Once it freezes that's as high as the pressure will ever get, thawing it will only allow more CO2 to redissolve and lower the pressure.

Yes, it was completely frozen when I transferred it.

Re: Why does my diet soda taste off? Aspartame hydrolysis

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there are a lot of studies where the author starts with the conviction that Aspartame is "bad", and designs a study to "prove" it. For example, "what if we give these lab rats a massively excessive dose of Aspartame every day for a year, and then check if that harmed them"

Isn't that just normal study design? Formulate a hypothesis (in this case "Aspartame bad"), design a test, find out if hypothesis was correct.

You are right that my comment as written did not do a good job of explaining what it is about these studies that seems fishy to me. So I thank you for responding to it and making me examine my opinion in more detail.

Someone else already responded to you and provided a much better explanation.

There is always something that rubs me the wrong way about these studies that set out to prove that artificial sweeteners are bad. It's intuitively appealing: it seems too easy that we can just replace sugar with these harmless chemicals and then it tastes mostly the same but without the calories or bad metabolic effects of sugar. But artificial sweeteners have been studied for decades, especially Aspartame, and as far as I know they appear to be harmless, outside of the Gwyneth Paltrow universe. So it seems to me that some people still have an axe to grind with these artificial sweeteners, and try to bend science to their will.

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